Historical price help

[Jd Smith1]

How much would a small sailing ship cost (thinking along the lines of an unarmed Bermuda Sloop) in the Revolutionary War period (1777, to be specific).

My players want to buy a small vessel in our FoF campaign, and my Google-fu is weak.

I'm looking for a ballpark figure, but one based on historical fact.

 

[Jagga Spikes]

GURPS Swashbucklers lists small sloop at $40,000, and notes that during 17th and 18th century $1,000 in silver weighs 1 pound. so, 40 pounds of silver gets you a small ship.

 

[BigJackBrass]

Around £15,000 is the number I noted down from somewhere when I was reading up on the period for a Colonial Gothic adventure. I think that might have included cannon, however.

 

[Jd Smith1]

Around £15,000 is the number I noted down from somewhere when I was reading up on the period for a Colonial Gothic adventure. I think that might have included cannon, however.

That's a start! Thank you!

 

[MNblockhead]

My google-fu also not doing well. Lots of great articles on ships from that era but very little on price. I think I'd have to hit the library. The quora response might be of interest, but it is mainly discussing merchant ships of that era:

In the 18th century, how much were tall ships cost and who mostly owned them?

Answer (1 of 3): This is a difficult question to answer since it depended on where the ship was made. However, it is possible to make a few educated guesses. Cost was largely dependent on where the ship was built, but at about £20 per ton could be considered average for a fully equipped sailing v...

www.quora.com

It offers a rule of thumb that would be useful to price ships: "an average of about £20 per ton could be considered average for a fully equipped sailing vessel. A 1100 ton East India merchant ship would thus cost about £22,000. A smaller vessel, such as the Bounty (ex-Bethia) cost about £4,400. The costs above are in 18th century £, so the cost today would be considerably higher with today’s currency values. The Bounty would have cost somewhere around £600,000 by today’s value, while the East Indiaman would have been a whopping £2.8 million." Id.

Another quora response:

"A Dutch trading vessel of the type known as the Fluyt, was one of the most common merchant ships circa 1650–1750, they carried about half of all European shipping in this time period. A fairly standard price from the Hoorn shipyards was 10,000 Guilders. The average wage of a well off, but not wealthy, Dutch merchant was about 500 Guilders a year in the same time period. These Dutch cargo ships of 200 to 300 tons, were lighter built and faster then most British,Spanish or French ships of the time. They carried more cargo because they were not dual use merchant/ warships and had no gun decks. That also made them about half the price of a dual use merchant-warship."

Neither give any citations for where they are getting these prices.

Another quora posts does give cites to other online sources. Again, these are for merchant ships:

In 1770s, a merchant ship cost about £1000 in America:

At Berkeley, a neighboring plantation on the James River, owned by Benjamin Harrison, there were extensive merchant mills and a large shipyard where vessels were built for the plantation. On October 20, 1768, there appeared a for-sale advertisement in the Virginia Gazette: "A double decked vessel of 110 tons on the stocks at Berkeley Shipyard, built to carry a great burden, and esteemed a very fine vessel." Two years later, John Hatley Norton and a Mr. Coutts were negotiating with Colonel Harrison for the purchase of the ship Botetourt built there for which they offered 1100 pounds sterling. "She is as stout a ship as was ever built in America, and we expect will carry 380 hogsheads of tobacco," wrote Mr. Norton.

Some Notes On Shipbuilding and Shipping In Colonial Virginia , by Cerinda W. Evans—A Project Gutenberg eBook

One hogshead (a large barrel of ~250 litres) of tobacco weighted ~1300 pounds or 585 kg, thus that ship's tonnage was about 220 tons.

Building ships in US was cheaper than in Europe (1790s):

An American ship, built of New England oak, would cost twenty-four dollars per ton; a similar ship built of fir along the Baltic coast would cost thirty-five dollars per ton. An American vessel made of more expensive live oak and cedar would cost thirty-six dollars to thirty-eight dollars per ton, while a similar vessel made of oak in England, France, or Holland would cost fifty-five dollars to sixty dollars per ton.

Shipbuilding facts, information, pictures

Given that 1 dollar was equal to 0.22 pounds in 1790s, such a ship as mentioned above would cost £1700-2900 to build in England and £1200-1700 in US in 1790s.

Historical Currency Converter

 

[Bluenose]

There's quite a few academic studies, not always accessible without paid membership. One that is available:

Medieval Price List

Doesn't mention ships.

 

[Jd Smith1]

My google-fu also not doing well. Lots of great articles on ships from that era but very little on price. I think I'd have to hit the library. The quora response might be of interest, but it is mainly discussing merchant ships of that era:

In the 18th century, how much were tall ships cost and who mostly owned them?

Answer (1 of 3): This is a difficult question to answer since it depended on where the ship was made. However, it is possible to make a few educated guesses. Cost was largely dependent on where the ship was built, but at about £20 per ton could be considered average for a fully equipped sailing v...

www.quora.com

It offers a rule of thumb that would be useful to price ships: "an average of about £20 per ton could be considered average for a fully equipped sailing vessel. A 1100 ton East India merchant ship would thus cost about £22,000. A smaller vessel, such as the Bounty (ex-Bethia) cost about £4,400. The costs above are in 18th century £, so the cost today would be considerably higher with today’s currency values. The Bounty would have cost somewhere around £600,000 by today’s value, while the East Indiaman would have been a whopping £2.8 million." Id.

Another quora response:

"A Dutch trading vessel of the type known as the Fluyt, was one of the most common merchant ships circa 1650–1750, they carried about half of all European shipping in this time period. A fairly standard price from the Hoorn shipyards was 10,000 Guilders. The average wage of a well off, but not wealthy, Dutch merchant was about 500 Guilders a year in the same time period. These Dutch cargo ships of 200 to 300 tons, were lighter built and faster then most British,Spanish or French ships of the time. They carried more cargo because they were not dual use merchant/ warships and had no gun decks. That also made them about half the price of a dual use merchant-warship."

Neither give any citations for where they are getting these prices.

Another quora posts does give cites to other online sources. Again, these are for merchant ships:

In 1770s, a merchant ship cost about £1000 in America:

Some Notes On Shipbuilding and Shipping In Colonial Virginia , by Cerinda W. Evans—A Project Gutenberg eBook

One hogshead (a large barrel of ~250 litres) of tobacco weighted ~1300 pounds or 585 kg, thus that ship's tonnage was about 220 tons.

Building ships in US was cheaper than in Europe (1790s):

Shipbuilding facts, information, pictures

Given that 1 dollar was equal to 0.22 pounds in 1790s, such a ship as mentioned above would cost £1700-2900 to build in England and £1200-1700 in US in 1790s.

Historical Currency Converter

Hmmmm....looks like a good used Bermuda Sloop, unarmed, at 40 tons, would run about 600-800 pounds, depending on the 'American discount'. That fits very nicely, all things considered.

Thanks!

 

[Bedrockgames]

I don't know this information off-hand, but my advice, just from interning at a historical society in a seaside town in New England: try contacting historical societies in places that have a lot of nautical history that would overlap with the time and place you are interested in (they will likely be accustomed to cataloging ship logs, merchant books, etc) and they can likely give you answers or at least a place to start with this (museums can be good as well). For example, even though it is much more famous for the Salem Witch Trials, the city of Salem has a lot of nautical history as it formed part of an important harbor during the revolution (along with Beverly I believe). There is even a museum in Salem called the Peabody Essex that has an extensive nautical collection. I've found when working on campaigns, RPGs books, etc contacting the director or librarian of a historical society or museum with these kinds of questions can be very fruitful.