hit dice and hit points

[Psikerlord#]

It varied, most classes had between 8-11 HD, then static +1, 2, or 3 thereafter. A few classes, with hard-level caps (around 14-17) had 1 HD/level. Bard might have broken that, oddly enough.

Really no different from 3.x/PF that way. But for wizards having d6's and rogues d8's that is.

Yes 3e, 4e and 5e all have too much damage and hp inflation, in my view. 1e and 2e did it better.

edit: 3e and 4e also had too much AC and to hit inflation, which at least 5e fixed. So they are half way there.

 

[TheLoneRanger1979]

Yes 3e, 4e and 5e all have too much damage and hp inflation, in my view. 1e and 2e did it better.

edit: 3e and 4e also had too much AC and to hit inflation, which at least 5e fixed. So they are half way there.

Yeah.... definitely agreed!

 

[Tony Vargas]

edit: 3e and 4e also had too much AC and to hit inflation, which at least 5e fixed. So they are half way there.

3e's fighter BAB advanced at +1 per level, compared to the 1e attack matrix, was lowered required to hit numbers by two at every other level (which is, mathematically, about the same thing), 2e's THAC0 was also essentially the same. 3e - like 1e, 2e, & 5e - also gave characters no AC bonus for leveling. 4e's bonus for leveling was +1/2 level.

5e really is the outlier at +4 over 20 levels. Even then, it's most like 4e in that the modifier is uniform across classes, just at ~+1/5 instead of +1/2.

 

[Psikerlord#]

3e's fighter BAB advanced at +1 per level, compared to the 1e attack matrix, was lowered required to hit numbers by two at every other level (which is, mathematically, about the same thing), 2e's THAC0 was also essentially the same. 3e - like 1e, 2e, & 5e - also gave characters no AC bonus for leveling. 4e's bonus for leveling was +1/2 level.

5e really is the outlier at +4 over 20 levels. Even then, it's most like 4e in that the modifier is uniform across classes, just at ~+1/5 instead of +1/2.

Actually yes you are right, I rem the 2e fighter only missing on a 1, and so on.

So to summarise (I think) 1e, 2e, 3e, 4e all had high to hit increases. But 3e and 4e also had AC increases (monsters at least), which moderated those hit rates. In comparison 1e and 2e ended up hitting a lot.

5e also hits a lot, because of bounded AC and getting access to adv, bless, etc.

1e and 2e had lower dmg ballparks and hit points. 3e, 4e, 5e all have high damage and high hit points.

The adv of the 1e/2e way, with lower dmg and hp, vs the 5e inflation, is more monsters stay relevant as PCs level up.

 

[Tony Vargas]

The adv of the 1e/2e way, with lower dmg and hp, vs the 5e inflation, is more monsters stay relevant as PCs level up.

Still not sure I agree. PC damage actually could get very high in 1e/2e. In 1e from scaling spells (there was no cap on lower level spells like in 3e), in 2e (& 1e + UA) also from dual-wielding & archery specialist fighters. And, while AC didn't scale with level, it did go up as you accumulated magic items, which rendered the lower level monsters unable to hit you, as well as being extremely vulnerable (dying to AE damage even on a save for 1/2, succumbing to Cloudkill and Death Spell &c). 5e Bounded Accuracy keeps more monsters dangerous longer (maybe too dangerous in large numbers), but you can still count on them croaking even on a successful save-for-1/2 vs your AE (you don't even need much of a level advantage for that).

Honestly, I'm not sure what either of us are getting at, at this point, I'm just in old-man mode, going on about the olden days to no particular purpose.

 

[Psikerlord#]

Still not sure I agree. PC damage actually could get very high in 1e/2e. In 1e from scaling spells (there was no cap on lower level spells like in 3e), in 2e (& 1e + UA) also from dual-wielding & archery specialist fighters. And, while AC didn't scale with level, it did go up as you accumulated magic items, which rendered the lower level monsters unable to hit you, as well as being extremely vulnerable (dying to AE damage even on a save for 1/2, succumbing to Cloudkill and Death Spell &c). 5e Bounded Accuracy keeps more monsters dangerous longer (maybe too dangerous in large numbers), but you can still count on them croaking even on a successful save-for-1/2 vs your AE (you don't even need much of a level advantage for that).

Honestly, I'm not sure what either of us are getting at, at this point, I'm just in old-man mode, going on about the olden days to no particular purpose.

LOL! Me too!