Hit dice with no level adjustment?

[Kobold Stew]

Hi,

Is there a rule (written or unwritten) that if a race has racial hit dice, that it also needs a level adjustment? That seems to be the case inthe core books, but I don't know other materials as well.

I'm interested in exceptions to this--races with humanoid hit dice but no level adjustment.

Any help appreciated.

Kobold Stew.

 

[Seravin]

No rule as such. In fact, hit dice alone are not enough to justify a level adjustment. Hit dice are effectively like taking a class level - generally a weak one at that unless you're a dragon or an outsider.

Level Adjustments are added for the creature's special abilities, including (but not limited to):

Zero-sum ability adjustments - for example a creature that gets a +2 to strength with no corresponding decrease in another ability. Most of the humanoids fall into this category with better than average physical stats.

Better than human natural abilities: being large (reach), better than average senses (bonuses to spot/listen, blindsense, tremorsense, etc).

Spell Like Abilities like Cone of Cold 1/day, or Teleport at will.

Supernatural Abilities such as breath weapon, petrifying gaze, eye rays, etc,

Spell Resistance, Damage Reduction, other resistances.

I believe Savage Species goes into this in more detail, but a lot of it has to be judged/balanced by the dm.

 

[Jhulae]

Well, Racial HD do add to ECL.

For example, if there was a 3 HD humanoid race that had no LA that a PC made into a 1st level fighter, that would be, effectively, a 4th level character. The 3 HD race has an ECL of +3 even though it has no further level adjustment on top of that.

So, no matter what, if a race has more than 1 racial HD, it's going to have some kind of ECL, even if it has no level adjustment for abilities or other special powers.

 

[irdeggman]

ECL (Effective Character Level) = class levels + LA + racial hit dice.

From the SRD

Starting Level of a Monster PC: Monsters suitable for play have a level adjustment given in their statistics. Add a monster’s level adjustment to its Hit Dice and class levels to get the creature’s effective character level, or ECL. Effectively, monsters with a level adjustment become multiclass character when they take class levels. A creature’s “monster class” is always a favored class, and the creature never takes XP penalties for having it.

3.5 did a very good job of simplifing this concept vice the 3.0 ECL being given as a +/- vice an actual level.

 

[Kobold Stew]

It seems I have not made myself clear.
I understand the difference between humanoid hit dice, level adjustment, and ECL (and CR, for that matter).

I am looking for specific creatures, in 3.5 books that have hit dice but do not have a level adjustment. Are there any?

I don't see any in the core books, and am wondering if this is a result of guiding principles. Seravin, I agree that hit dice should not result inn a level adjustment (in fact, I feel it is more of a penalty in most cases) but I am lookingfor races where it does not.

I hope this is clearer.

Thanks.

KS

 

[Kobold Stew]

Hi again, a bit of a *bump*

Does the silence mean that there are none? Or merely that the question is uninteresting?



KS

 

[Nail]

FWIW, I don't know of any (MM, MMII, FF, MMIII).

 

[Hypersmurf]

I am looking for specific creatures, in 3.5 books that have hit dice but do not have a level adjustment. Are there any?

I don't see any in the core books, and am wondering if this is a result of guiding principles. Seravin, I agree that hit dice should not result inn a level adjustment (in fact, I feel it is more of a penalty in most cases) but I am lookingfor races where it does not.

Savage Species is sort-of 3.5ish (it came out during the leadup), and some of the anthropomorphic animals have hit dice and no LA.

-Hyp.

 

[Bront]

Just to get this straight, you're looking for creatures with racial HD but no LA?

 

[irdeggman]

Try in the animals appendix of the MM.

APE is one. No LA but racial hit dice.