Pathfinder 1E Hit Point Inflation and Power Creep in Pathfinder

[Voadam]

It's difficult to articulate this, but I'll try. (This is veering off-topic, so I won't take it very far.)

I think, insignificant as it may seem, players like this tiny bit of randomness when going up a level. (And I do mean "tiny bit.") I know that as a player, I'm excited when I roll high HP, and disappointed when I roll low, even though we've got a minimum of half the die (rounded down).

My group ditched it years ago in our 3e games and I much prefer not having the random die rolls for hp. When I had good rolls I felt almost like I was cheating playing next to the PC who got bad rolls. And getting low rolls always sucked.

Point buy and standard hp for me all the way.

 

[Creeping Death]

I like Iron Heroes method for hit points. They have stuff like 1d4 + 6/level, 1d4 + 8/level, 1d4 + 4/level, and 1d4 + 2/level. Berserker (barbarian) is guaranteed to have between 9 and 12 + con hp a level while the armiger will have between 7 and 10 + con a level. Still get the chance to roll high but don't get the great suck of rolling low.

 

[Kerrick]

Personally, I'm not entirely sure why Pathfinder has kept fully random HP. The possibility of a barbarian rolling a 1 while his wizard buddy rolls a 6 -- God forbid it happen a few levels in a row -- is stupid. They'll probably still change it, but it seems a basic and simple enough change to have made it into the Beta. There may well be no more common a house-rule in 3.5 than taking full randomness out of HP rolls.

I don't know why everyone's so stuck on whether or not so minor (relatively speaking) as random hp vs. standardized will become "official". I mean, you've already said it's a very common house rule, so if they go with random, just house rule it. It's one or two lines in a notebook or a Word doc.

(I think the best solution, though, would be to include BOTH methods, to appease the most people. )

 

[Wyrmshadows]

I don't know why everyone's so stuck on whether or not so minor (relatively speaking) as random hp vs. standardized will become "official". I mean, you've already said it's a very common house rule, so if they go with random, just house rule it. It's one or two lines in a notebook or a Word doc.

(I think the best solution, though, would be to include BOTH methods, to appease the most people. )

My question as well.

Any issue over fixed vs. standardized HP is a non-issue. DMs can decide with their players which system to use in their game the same way they can decide whether or not they prefer to use dice rolls or various standardized arrays to generate character stats. All Pathfinder needs to do is provide options for folks who can't come up with varied solutions on their own but they do not need to state the one true OFFICIAL PATHFINDER method of doing these things.



Wyrmshadows

 

[Tilenas]

An easy solution we found in our (AD&D) group: simply roll lvl x (HD + Con-mod). You either get this value as your new HP or current HP +1 + Con-mod (minimum advancement), whichever is higher.
There you have a random system, but the standard deviation is much closer to the mean value, making very high or low HP values all but impossible after a few levels. And since the HP are capped at 10th level, it doesn't get too complicated to roll all them dice.

 

[Tilenas]

Yet lots of folks are asking for a level-based bonus to AC. The last thing I want to see is a lot more attacks that miss.

Now that's an idea to get rid of all those ridiculously high natural armor bonuses high lvl monsters tend to possess.


As for the suggested starting HP methods: I'd go with the racial or flat variety. While the racial one adds more flavor, it does seem to derail racial balance a bit, as the four-point difference in starting values between Elves and Dwarves is further increased by their Con-modifiers.

 

[JRRNeiklot]

Power creep is one of the main reasons I'm staying clear of Pathfinder, as much as I want to support them. I LIKE the fact that one lucky blow can kill a pc. Low level characters SHOULD be fragile and worried that one lone orc can kill one of them before they bring him down. I get that some people don't like low level play, the solution is for those people to start at 3rd level. That way they can have the game they like and so can those of us who prefer a more gritty low level feel.

 

[SSquirrel]

Again, I fully understand that this is one roll over an entire level, and is thus relatively insignificant, but "rolling HP" has been almost a ritual in literally every group of D&D players I've ever played with. We would miss it if it were gone, and I'd wager an overwhelming majority of D&D players would as well.

Given that, and given the disastrous possibilities of linear HD and multiple rolls totaling on the left tail of the bell curve, pretty much every HP house-rule has to do with keeping the randomness and the "boo-yah!" of a max roll, while mitigating the disaster of a minimum roll. And that's what Pathfinder needs to do.

Those of us who traditionally roll poorly for HPs each level like the idea of set HP gains

"Ok Hagen you finished your 7th level Mage, time to check out his HPs."
"Alright, here goes nothing. 1 (OUCH!), 3, 1, 1, 2, 4 (Thank the gods!), 2...14...I'm so dead."

Power creep is one of the main reasons I'm staying clear of Pathfinder, as much as I want to support them. I LIKE the fact that one lucky blow can kill a pc. Low level characters SHOULD be fragile and worried that one lone orc can kill one of them before they bring him down. I get that some people don't like low level play, the solution is for those people to start at 3rd level. That way they can have the game they like and so can those of us who prefer a more gritty low level feel.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?t=82837&highlight=revised+grim is your friend

 

[Phlebas]

Power creep is one of the main reasons I'm staying clear of Pathfinder, as much as I want to support them. I LIKE the fact that one lucky blow can kill a pc. Low level characters SHOULD be fragile and worried that one lone orc can kill one of them before they bring him down.

1st level play is still pretty scary even with the increased hp

eg wizard 3,5e starts on 4hp (assume con 10), in pFRP (if its a favoured class) they start on 7hp. trust me you still run away from the scary kobold screaming like a little girl to hide behind the fighters! plus fighters / paladins only get the +1 hp (and only if favoured class)

I get that some people don't like low level play, the solution is for those people to start at 3rd level. That way they can have the game they like and so can those of us who prefer a more gritty low level feel.

definitely!

 

[AllisterH]

Personally, the biggest source of powercreep isn't the HP but the added +2 to racial scores AND the increase in the number of feats.

Mainly because, unlike a +2 to STR which pretty much scales linearly, thanks to how magic works, the racial ability of elves and the increased number of feats have a weird uncalculable effect on the game.