Hit points & long rests: please consider?

[Neonchameleon]

My experience is similar, but from the posts and polls on these forums, I feel that I may be in the minority.

But if most people want less healing from a long rest, but system keeps the same structure (HD, short rest, long rest), I feel that I can play the game just as I want with little-to-no work.

Which makes me happy.

I don't want less healing from long rests. I want long rests further apart. At least whenever I run.

 

[synthapse]

I don't want less healing from long rests. I want long rests further apart. At least whenever I run.

I guess I was thinking that returning a fraction of HP over a long rest would result in the same thing, but I think your solution may be more elegant-- simply allow a rules module to dictate the time of the long rest-- a day, a week, an hour, a month, or whatever.

But if spell recharging is still based on a day's time, then PC's should get something back for resting all night-- maybe just HD, or a fraction of HD, or something.

 

[Zustiur]

The question is not how much time will take for the PC to heal. They'll heal in one night. Either with mundane insta-healing, or using a cheap Cure Light Wounds Wand, depending on the edition..

Here's hoping for slow-ish non-magical healing, with no craftable wands of healing.

Seriously though; play style is the key thing here.

Do you want to continue day after day in your high paced adventures, or do you want the injuries you sustain in your day to actually mean something?

It's much like the difference between starting as nobodies and starting as heroes. Do you have 1-10 HP and purely rolled stats, or 20+ HP and points buy?

I seem to recall reading both "fighting-man had d6 HP" and "don't bother giving your character a name until you reach 4th level" in discussions around original DND. Neither of those statements strike me as 'the characters are better than the common man'. Yet both statements do more to reflect the style of game that I run than the idea of having 20+ HP at 1st level and healing everything overnight do.

On the other hand, I can totally see how the 4E-esk CONvalue+HD and Heal to full HP overnight thing can be fun.

In conclusion; I don't think there's really a right and wrong option here. I think it's more a case of, what options should be available, and which one is the default? I'd argue for something in the middle being the default, rather than one extreme or the other.

 

[Walking Dad]

...

In conclusion; I don't think there's really a right and wrong option here. I think it's more a case of, what options should be available, and which one is the default? I'd argue for something in the middle being the default, rather than one extreme or the other.

I would argue the one working with the sample/first adventure as core and the other as options. The new players should enjoy their first voyage into adventure, regardless of preferred playstyles of old hands.

 

[NotAYakk]

Rather than slow recovery of HP, have slow recovery of HD. And pace spells to be recovered at the same pace.

Long Rest: After each long rest (no more than once per day), you can recover spells and hit dice. To recover a hit die, make a constitution check with a bonus equal to a roll of the hit die in question against DC 20. If you succeed at that check, you may attempt to recover another hit die. If you fail, you may no longer attempt to recover hit dice this long rest.

(so an 8 con wizard rolls 1d20+1d4-1 against DC 20. A 14 con fighter rolls 1d20+1d12+2 vs DC 20. So a fighter has a DC ~14 using a secondary attribute to recover a hit die.)

If you are in a comfortable situation (an inn or better), you have advantage on this check. If you are in a horrible situation (resting without shelter in a dank swamp), you have disadvantage on this check.

You may choose to expend a HD to gain HP and attempt to recover it immediately during your long rest.

To recover a spell slot, make your spellcasting attribute check against DC 15 plus the spells' level. If you succeed, you can continue trying to recover spells until you fail.

If you have access to a good location to recover your spells (ie: a church to your god for a priest, or an arcane library or laboratory for a wizard), you have advantage on this check. If you are in a horrible situation (resting without shelter in a dank swap), you have disadvantage on this check.

---

Probably too complex. But I wanted high HD to be an advantage when you want to recover them...

 

[Neonchameleon]

But if spell recharging is still based on a day's time, then PC's should get something back for resting all night-- maybe just HD, or a fraction of HD, or something.

That's part of the point. It isn't still based on a day's time. Spell recharging is tied to the long rest with the recovery of hit points - a useful balancing method. Which kills the 15 minute adventuring day stone cold dead IME - and forces people to be much more cautious about using up spells even at higher levels. Otheriwse a 5th level wizard can cast more magic per day than Gandalf did in the whole LoTR. And the wizard using a lab or tower to prepare spells is iconic and useful. While the cleric and paladin go to the temple.

 

[SSquirrel]

That sounds like the start point of a grand campaign!

Lan-"if I was starting a campaign right now I might just use this straight up"-efan

Heh, I'm glad my failure of the quest became an idea you would like to run with. Feel free to, just drop me a line and let me know how it goes heh.

Some of us would prefer that there be some risk and the chance that we not succeed at our goal. I don't want saving the princess to be automatic, or killing all the giants to be a given or guaranteed success at assaulting the wizard's tower. I think those of us in that camp tend to dislike the heal all your hit points in one night approach.

If these are givens then there really isn't a need to do any real planning or even play out the encounters if I know I am going to succeed.

What did I say that makes any of it a given? Have you seen how poorly I roll?! There are still plenty of things that can go wrong and keep us from our goal. It IS still possible for players to die in 4E. I've seen TPKs. I like games where the players feel like badasses a good chunk of the time. I hated in 3E how my wizard would cast his few spells then have to sit back w/a crossbow and contribute very poorly to combat.

Sometimes the adventure means they will be at the last encounter for the princess at the end of their day and if they have had to use more of their dailies already, it will certainly be a tougher fight for them. If they were judicious in using those, things may go more smoothly for them.

Like a gritty "my knee still hurts, is the princess already dead?" setting Lanefan described. But IMHO, I think the former is the more "base" experience and the later a (not worse or wrong) variant.

I described it, Lanefan expounded on it heh.

 

[Tovec]

What did I say that makes any of it a given? Have you seen how poorly I roll?! There are still plenty of things that can go wrong and keep us from our goal. It IS still possible for players to die in 4E. I've seen TPKs. I like games where the players feel like badasses a good chunk of the time. I hated in 3E how my wizard would cast his few spells then have to sit back w/a crossbow and contribute very poorly to combat.

Sometimes the adventure means they will be at the last encounter for the princess at the end of their day and if they have had to use more of their dailies already, it will certainly be a tougher fight for them. If they were judicious in using those, things may go more smoothly for them.

I have wildly different opinions compared to you but I respect your preference and won't fight it but...

How often were PCs killed, not just dropped to negatives, when it WASN'T a TPK? Similarly, how often were they dropped to negatives and not killed?

 

[IronWolf]

What did I say that makes any of it a given? Have you seen how poorly I roll?! There are still plenty of things that can go wrong and keep us from our goal. It IS still possible for players to die in 4E. I've seen TPKs. I like games where the players feel like badasses a good chunk of the time. I hated in 3E how my wizard would cast his few spells then have to sit back w/a crossbow and contribute very poorly to combat.

Cool - Your last sentences just confirm we have different play styles. There isn't anything wrong with that! Hopefully the module system in D&D Next will be able to accommodate both of our play styles.

 

[Tortoise]

Actually I like the system. Nothing is more ennerving than a weeks rest period in a time critical adventure.
QUOTE]

Food for thought: In a time critical adventure the pressure is on and the risks mount. There are decisions to be made. Are they pressing on despite the added risk of fatalities? Can they and will they hire or negotiate for assistance? Could a portion of the team make a strike at some part of the enemy infrastructure or supplies that will slow the roll toward trouble?

Even in time critical adventures I get more enjoyment out of the risks and need to plan than I do having everything be automatically topped up and ready.