Hit points & long rests: please consider?

[merchantsteve]

I am thinking about this 'module' for healing.

If you are not bloodied - a full night's rest restores you to full HP.
If you are bloodied - roll 1 hit die to recover that many HP after a full night's rest. If under the care of a person with the healing skill, you have advantage.

Healing Potions: In combat, you may be sloshing the thing around and spilling some of it. You roll the healing as normal. If taking a short rest, you have advantage when you take the potion.

I think this bridges the 'realism' vs. 'full-healing' problem without being burdensome. The bloodied threshold takes on meaning in regards to recovery. Real wounds take time to recover while scratches and bruises do not.

 

[Mercutio01]

What I find most amusing about the whole 'realism' thing is that if you TRULY wanted realism then you wouldn't be playing D&D. But hey, let's run with it.

Every cut deep enough to break through the fat layers is potentially lethal. Infection will set in very quickly if not dealt with right away. Any bruise deep enough to affect internal organs or bones again carries with it the chance of infection but will also probably cause internal bleeding which can't be healed by anything short of magic. Then there are broken bones. Broken bones are adventure-career ending injuries. Without magical healing, bones will not set properly in a medieval setting and so the character will be permanently gimped, not to mention be out of action for at least 3-6 months depending on the severity.

Then there are all the real life-threatening wounds. A stab in the gut is pretty much a death sentence without magical healing. Even a small dagger in the gut is basically life-ending, and that's assuming it doesn't hit any arteries on the way in and doesn't hit the live or kidneys, just the intestines. Game over, friend.

Congratulations! You've just made the case for slow natural healing, with magical expenses to offset the slow rate of the body's ability to fix itself.

Seriously, I couldn't have argued the case for core rules with slow natural healing any better than you did right here.

 

[Kzach]

Congratulations! You've just made the case for slow natural healing, with magical expenses to offset the slow rate of the body's ability to fix itself.

Seriously, I couldn't have argued the case for core rules with slow natural healing any better than you did right here.

Excellent!

Now all we have to agree on is that it's ridiculous to assume that any wound the character takes is anything worse than a minor injury on the above scale because otherwise, they WOULD be out of action permanently.

Characters simply are NOT taking massive, life-threatening wounds. If they were, then games would be very short and very boring.

 

[Mercutio01]

Excellent!

Now all we have to agree on is that it's ridiculous to assume that any wound the character takes is anything worse than a minor injury on the above scale because otherwise, they WOULD be out of action permanently.

Characters simply are NOT taking massive, life-threatening wounds. If they were, then games would be very short and very boring.

Sadly, that won't happen. I think when you get knocked to very low hit points, you are suffering from a debilitating wound or several minor wounds, which adds up to the same thing. And that is why we have magical healers.

It's a fundamental difference in preferences, I suppose.

I've now seen several proposed house rules that center around bloodied and restoration of hit points, with the common thread being that if you are bloodied, your natural healing is very very slow. And if you are not bloodied (that is, your HP are above half) you get all your HP replenished to full. That would actually be acceptable to me, and I think it's an interesting idea. It's certainly more in line with the Legends and Lore from the other day. And I think that is probably a fairly solid middle compromise.

 

[Sir Robilar]

Didn't see this thread so I'm reposting what I wrote in the Long Rest Poll thread. Sorry!


"I would have less of a problem with the mechanic if it was harder to get a character from the state of being knocked down and unconscious to back on his feet and kickin'.

The playtest document states that you have to have at least 1 hit point to take any rest, long or short. A healer's kit won't help to give the character that one hit point since it only stabilizes the unconscious. However - as per the playtest's RAW - If you don't apply magical healing to a stabilized character, he will get 1 hp after 2d6 hours. This is where Mearl's explanation of hit points and the rules don't fit together nicely, since characters self-regenerate a severe wound by themselves after 2d6 hours of lying on the ground.

So, my proposal: Get rid of this 2d6-hours rule. Instead, make it MUCH harder for a character to get to that 1 hp with mere mundane means, as this simulates the treatment of a severe wound. It could be something like a DC 15 heal (Wisdom) check + the use of a Healer's Kit + 2d6 hours of rest. If the check fails, repeat.

Then, when the character is back on his feet again, he merely needs to recover from the exhausting treatment and trauma -> he gets complete recovery of hp's and HD after the next complete rest.

What do you think?"

 

[merchantsteve]

Sadly, that won't happen. I think when you get knocked to very low hit points, you are suffering from a debilitating wound or several minor wounds, which adds up to the same thing. And that is why we have magical healers.

It's a fundamental difference in preferences, I suppose.

I've now seen several proposed house rules that center around bloodied and restoration of hit points, with the common thread being that if you are bloodied, your natural healing is very very slow. And if you are not bloodied (that is, your HP are above half) you get all your HP replenished to full. That would actually be acceptable to me, and I think it's an interesting idea. It's certainly more in line with the Legends and Lore from the other day. And I think that is probably a fairly solid middle compromise.

I am thankful you see the "bloodied" threshold a reasonable compromise. My only concern is that whatever the final mechanic is, it is based on principles already defined as 'core'. If hit dice are in, then make them have meaning - use them in healing. If advantages and disadvantages are central to the game, then give them a role in healing. Heck, if exploding die rolls get added at some point, then make sure healing uses them.

 

[Kzach]

The playtest document states that you have to have at least 1 hit point to take any rest, long or short. A healer's kit won't help to give the character that one hit point since it only stabilizes the unconscious. However - as per the playtest's RAW - If you don't apply magical healing to a stabilized character, he will get 1 hp after 2d6 hours. This is where Mearl's explanation of hit points and the rules don't fit together nicely, since characters self-regenerate a severe wound by themselves after 2d6 hours of lying on the ground.

You're forgetting Death Saves.

In order to stabilise, you first have to succeed at three Death Saves. Every Death Save you fail in-between those success, you lose 1d6 hit points. Get to Con + Level minus hit points, and your character is dead.

So let's have some fun!

1st-level character with 10 Constitution goes to 0 hit points. Every round he rolls to see if he can stabilise or not. If he reaches 11 negative hit points before he rolls 10 or higher three times, he dies.

Well darn, he survived! Close though, got to negative 9 hit points before finally stabilising. Now he has to wait 2d6 hours before he gets 1 hit point. THEN he can rest IF he hasn't already done a long rest in the last 24 hours. So for 10 hours after the combat, the character was touch-and-go, but ultimately the wound just wasn't that bad and he pulled through. Now with a good night's sleep, he'll be up and about in the morning.

 

[Sir Robilar]

No, haven't forgotten about them. Everything regarding death saves stays the same in my proposal. I'm not talking about Stabilising but what happens after you have stabilised when you want to come back to positive hit points (regaining that 1 hp you need to be able to do a short or long rest).

 

[Kzach]

No, haven't forgotten about them. Everything regarding death saves stays the same in my proposal. I'm not talking about Stabilising but what happens after you have stabilised when you want to come back to positive hit points (regaining that 1 hp you need to be able to do a short or long rest).

But I think you're underestimating what 'stabilised' means. Stabilised essentially means that the wound is NOT life-threatening. Wounds are a fluid thing. Just because the character went down, doesn't mean he took a fatal wound. It just means he took a POTENTIALLY fatal wound. So that stab to the gut might've looked bad when he went down, but ultimately it ended up just being a flesh wound.

 

[Sir Robilar]

But I think you're underestimating what 'stabilised' means. Stabilised essentially means that the wound is NOT life-threatening. Wounds are a fluid thing. Just because the character went down, doesn't mean he took a fatal wound. It just means he took a POTENTIALLY fatal wound. So that stab to the gut might've looked bad when he went down, but ultimately it ended up just being a flesh wound.

But this creates a weird meta-game situation where you only know that you were struck a life-threatening wound when you're already dead. Which makes it hard to explain what happens in-game.

In my understanding of the rules you make a death save when your body is fighting death's approach, so: you are in a serious, life-threatening situation, not just the potential of one.