Hit Points, Vitality Points, and Visualizing Damage

[ptolemy18]

I was just thinking about how some of the offshoot D20 products (like STAR WARS) use Vitality Points instead of Hit Points (so that, i.e., you , and I came to the conclusion that, in fact, I like old-fashioned Hit Points.

I see how Vitality Points and similar systems can be very helpful for a system where you're trying to do more "realistic" combat (I like these systems for some games, and I actually considered using the wound points system from OGL ANCIENTS in my current campaign). However, I like Hit Points for the particular feeling that they bring to the campaign world (at least in my mind)... the idea that high-level characters aren't capable of just "dodging better" and "rolling with the punches" (as is the implication with Vitality Points), they're capable of taking hideous amounts of damage which would kill a normal person and walking away from it.

Has anyone read a lot of action manga? Specifically ONE PIECE? (The comic, not the animation.) That's how I imagine D&D characters -- they are capable of taking HORRIBLE GRIEVOUS WOUNDS, shedding TONS OF BLOOD, coughing up blood, having things impale them, etc., and still they live and fight on because they're so damn courageous and superhumanly awesome! It's gory and heroic!!!!

Furthermore, everyone is familiar with the idea of "Hit Points" from a million video games (even though it started with D&D), so I hope Wizards never goes crazy and decides to jettison hit points from some future edition of D&D.

I love telling characters things like "You take 18 points of damage. Your shoulderbone snaps in half. Don't worry, though, the pain doesn't give you any penalty." Let injured characters always stagger around half-dead dripping blood from countless wounds~!! At least that's how *I* prefer to describe it when I'm DMing... Other DMs may vary, but I like the gore element...

Jason

 

[LostSoul]

I'm actually the opposite. I like to describe hits using something like, "He swings his longsword at your neck, and you get your sword up just in time to keep your head," or "The ogre's club smashes against your armour and you are forced to roll with it. You don't hear a rib snap, but you know you'll have a big bruise tomorrow."

 

[shilsen]

I'm actually the opposite. I like to describe hits using something like, "He swings his longsword at your neck, and you get your sword up just in time to keep your head," or "The ogre's club smashes against your armour and you are forced to roll with it. You don't hear a rib snap, but you know you'll have a big bruise tomorrow."

Same here. I track all hit points and the players only get descriptions, so have to be both creative and precise in description to make sure that they have a good idea what their health situation is without me mentioning any numbers. The heavy gore occurs when the killing blows connect.

 

[drakhe]

Use whatever you like

Actualy, using vitality points does not prevent a game from getting gory, it is just another way of dealing with the craft and skill of your character. And in some cases (like Star Wars Jedi powers) it allows doing extraordinary stuff.


And offcourse, a DM is free to describe a scene any way he wants, whatever the system for damage/wounds/... .

On a personal note: I never liked the "absorbing massive amounts of damage and still standing" systems. It's just like watching a movie where a character should be stone-dead after the second roundhouse kick, but instead the opponents keep kicking and stomping each other for another 15 minutes, bleeding more blood than an actual person has in his body and performing feats with limbs that have been virtualy cut or ripped off....

Mind you, in rpg's I've never let this bother my enjoyment of the game, as everybody plays by the same rules. And as a DM, I again come to the main reason I like RPG's so much: golden rule: if you don't like something, don't use it in your game (or change it to your liking). Examle: one of the groups I play in is running a ADnD(2e) game but we completely replaced the combat and HP system with our own system (based heavily on the old Das Schwartze Auge system, well, my DM loves DSA... )

 

[iwatt]

Same here. I track all hit points and the players only get descriptions, so have to be both creative and precise in description to make sure that they have a good idea what their health situation is without me mentioning any numbers. The heavy gore occurs when the killing blows connect.

That works well for Pcs and NPcs. How do you handle describing hits against big critters like dragons and Giants?

 

[LostSoul]

Death of a thousand cuts.

 

[Turjan]

However, I like Hit Points for the particular feeling that they bring to the campaign world (at least in my mind)... the idea that high-level characters aren't capable of just "dodging better" and "rolling with the punches" (as is the implication with Vitality Points), they're capable of taking hideous amounts of damage which would kill a normal person and walking away from it.

Actually, I never saw the hit point dynamics in such a way that the characters with high hp could stand more severe wounds than those with low hp. The fact that somebody succeeds with doing 18 HP damage translates to "(s)he is fairly capable dishing out damage with the weapon". To an unexperienced (= low level) character, 18 hp damage compared to his clumsy fighting skills mean a vital or fatal wound. To an experienced fighter, 18 hp damage means that he was not able to avert the blow, but still somehow managed to avoid a dangerous wound. If he's down to 4 hp, he's finally so worn down that he is as clumsy as a first level wizard .

Maybe I'm wrong with this notion, but that's how I always saw hitpoints.

 

[shilsen]

That works well for Pcs and NPcs. How do you handle describing hits against big critters like dragons and Giants?

What LostSoul said, plus I'll vary the description to take into account the unusual physical setup. The giant taking a killing wound from the halfling rogue who comes up to his shin might be something like "The giant's club slams into the ground beside you, and the miss pulls him off-balance and off his feet, so that you can sink your dagger into his eye." That, and the femoral artery is great for such purposes