Hit Points?

[Surgoshan]

I think con is definitely not the all stat it once was, but I doubt it will be a dump stat. The question is will it ever be a primary stat, would someone be willing to throw their 18 in it like some classes do now?

Again, going back to the article (same quote, different emphasis):

“Yeah. I thought about going high Con and using a hammer, but I wanted to start with the chance to make a couple of attacks, so I’m using rain of blows as my good weapon attack, and I went with high Wis so that I can switch to the better oppy powers later.”

I don't know about other classes, but the fighter's weapon choice is definitely going to be, if not determined, then at least bolstered by his stats. It sounds like a hammer fighter's sploits are going to read [W] + Con for damage, or maybe BAB + Con vs. AC or some such for attack. Who knows, there may even be a sploit wherein you can attack as many times as your con bonus, or it may be that you can use a sploit so many times per encounter/day as determined by your Con.

In other words, your stats don't just determine a single thing any more. Dexterity doesn't just determine AC, Intelligence doesn't just determine how many languages you learn, Charisma doesn't just get you henchmen and hookers, etc.

 

[Lanefan]

Just for fun I decided to take a look at HP at the end of each tier of play.

10th level HPs (assumes 20 Con for everyone)

Wizards 66HP
Cleric/Ranger/Rogue/Warlock/Warlord 77HP
Fighter/Paladin 89HP

20th level HPs (assumes 20 Con for everyone)

Wizards 106HP
Cleric/Ranger/Rogue/Warlock/Warlord 127HP
Fighter/Paladin 149HP

20th level HPs (assumes 20 Con for everyone)

Wizards 146HP
Cleric/Ranger/Rogue/Warlock/Warlord 177HP
Fighter/Paladin 209HP

At all levels that's a much lower difference than any previous edition (assuming average rolls over time). Interesting...

Lanefan

 

[Victim]

That's true, but we still don't have the complete picture. Overall surviveability seems to be about HP/defenses/healing surges now. The dwarf fight has more than twice as many healing surges as the tiefling wizard, looking at the sample characters. So on a per day basis, the fighter will probably have much more HP than the wizard. It's just that it's not too much easier to drop the wizard in any single series of attacks.

 

[Thyrwyn]

what Victim said.

 

[UngeheuerLich]

I think con is definitely not the all stat it once was, but I doubt it will be a dump stat. The question is will it ever be a primary stat, would someone be willing to throw their 18 in it like some classes do now?

As for toughness, I agree it seems like a very strong feat. In general wotc was saying that feats are slightly weaker than what we are used to, but toughness is amazingly strong especially for a wizard (25% hp bump!!)

at heroic tier, constitution will determine your healing capability. 2 points of const will give you an extra surge which means +25% hp. so if you have 10 const and 4 surges, you have only 2/3 the hp of the same character with 18 const.

 

[essenbee]

Well, yeah, that's why you wouldn't choose to keep adventuring if you were low on healing surges.

The heroes may not have that choice, for heaven's sake! The monster's keep attacking the farmstead - they don't just call a halt just because a player decides to rest his fighter; the princess must be rescued before sunset - sure they PCs can take a break, but then she gets eaten. Whatever happened to adventure and imagination rather than reducing the game to X encounters per day?

 

[DandD]

Got punched down when people were conditioned to only have maximally 4 encounters per day. And really, it was about the mages and healers who had to recuperate their powerful spells. The Fighters were irrelevant. Nobody cared for their health, only if the Cleric still had heal spells left, and if the wizard or sorceror could still blast the enemy into smiterins...

 

[Mort_Q]

.... your stats don't just determine a single thing any more. Dexterity doesn't just determine AC, Intelligence doesn't just determine how many languages you learn, Charisma doesn't just get you henchmen and hookers, etc.

Sounds great! Now PCs can be different and still viable. Instead of needing a feat or a class level dip, you can use different abilities to bolster the same things.

If you want to dump a stat, that's fine, but it won't always be the same stat!

I've lovin' it!

 

[Ojuara]

Good to know con score aids healing surgering!

When I say "new charisma", im talkin about 2e Cha, not 3e Cha. It was a poorly regarded stat back in AD&D, trough my halfling thief put his to a good use. Most of the time.

I'm glad WotC is taking the opposite way World of Warcraft took in its expansion: Constitution is not a mandatory maxed out stat, like Stamina in WoW:TBC.


My bad feeling now is about Min/maxing due to these defenses versatilities... Strong warriors being fragile, agile rogues being dumb, wise clerics sociopathic etc.