D&D 5E Hoard of the Dragon Queen: As it Turns out, it's Pretty Good (so far)

[Gundark]

I've only read the first two chapters with plans to run it later on. The first episode is problematic for sure, right down to the last encounter which I know that my players would have a big WTH!?! moment if I used the encounter as written. The second episode is definitely better but the one combat encounter *SPOILERS*
the ambush looks like it could be a possible TPK

Will wait and see what the other chapters look like.

 

[Tony Semana]

It reads like quite a few of the negative opinions boils down to Adventure-as-Read or Adventure-as-Interpreted as much as Adventure as Written. The missions are varied and well supported but yes, if you as a DM insist that your players run one mission after another without rest, they WILL get destroyed when they are quickly out of resources.

The point of this Episode isn't for the characters to 'win it all' it's to demonstrate the first major hook that 'something big' is happening with the Dragon Cult, and yes, the characters are supposed to be spent and battered at the end.

Along the subject, it's worth listening to this if you're confused about what's expected: GenCon When Kobolds Meet Tiamat

 

[sgtscott658]

I look at published adventures as a frame work to build upon.


Scott

 

[Steel_Wind]

I look at published adventures as a frame work to build upon.


Scott

I think this is a very fair observation Scott.

HOWEVER, in my view, one of the main reasons for the success of the Pathfinder RPG is the success of its AP line and how Paizo's entire product lines are designed and marketed largely with the principal aim of supporting people who run and play in those Adventure Paths.

Taking it a step further, while there are many people who play in home-brewed campaigns who play Pathfinder, my sense of the Pathfinder community is that the percentage of those who play in Pathfinder campaigns which are solely focused on playing the AP line is much higher (as a proportion of players of that RPG) than is the default assumption for any other RPG. That leads to brand loyalty and has contributed to the commercial success of Paizo. It's that sort of success which WotC was hoping to duplicate through ToD.

If the Tyranny of Dragons AP ends up being merely a base upon which a DM must start, but not a solid foundation that a DM can just run out of the box with a high degree of confidence, it's not going to be as successful a product line as it would otherwise be.

And that's not a good thing.

 

[Haffrung]

If the Tyranny of Dragons AP ends up being merely a base upon which a DM must start, but not a solid foundation that a DM can just run out of the box with a high degree of confidence, it's not going to be as successful a product line as it would otherwise be.

While Adventure Path style linear adventures with heavily plotted stories and ready-made cut scenes may be a popular adventure model, I don't know that it's the only approach WotC needs to take to find a loyal audience. Some players on old-school sites, where 5E is being very well-received, are already slamming HotDQ for being too scripted. There is a market out there for setting-based adventures where the story is left to the DM or generated organically in play. So does WotC hew closely to the popular AP adventure format? Or do they take the same approach they've taken to the 5E system itself and try to find a middle ground between story and sandbox, or at least provide some setting-based adventures as options?

 

[dd.stevenson]

If the Tyranny of Dragons AP ends up being merely a base upon which a DM must start, but not a solid foundation that a DM can just run out of the box with a high degree of confidence, it's not going to be as successful a product line as it would otherwise be.

I would be interested in hearing why you believe this. Anecdotally, most of my players are strongly disinclined toward pathfinder APs because they are too scripted. While they all appreciate the production values, they usually get antsy and resentful of the heavy-handed tactics necessary to pull them forward along the story arc, and in order to get them to play wotc's adventures at all I had to persuade them that these were a totally different beast than the pathfinder APs.

I don't think what you're saying is wrong, necessarily, but it doesn't strike me as self-evidently true either. Why is a consistent, relatively DM-independent experience necessary for adventure lines to be most successful?

 

[rastus_burne]

So does WotC hew closely to the popular AP adventure format? Or do they take the same approach they've taken to the 5E system itself and try to find a middle ground between story and sandbox, or at least provide some setting-based adventures as options?

I imagine as time progresses there'll be a little of both. That is, some scripted APs, others more loose and sandboxy. Maybe even a few, which like you suggest, holds a nice middle ground between the two.

 

[Steel_Wind]

I would be interested in hearing why you believe this. Anecdotally, most of my players are strongly disinclined toward pathfinder APs because they are too scripted. While they all appreciate the production values, they usually get antsy and resentful of the heavy-handed tactics necessary to pull them forward along the story arc, and in order to get them to play wotc's adventures at all I had to persuade them that these were a totally different beast than the pathfinder APs.

I don't think what you're saying is wrong, necessarily, but it doesn't strike me as self-evidently true either. Why is a consistent, relatively DM-independent experience necessary for adventure lines to be most successful?

The "holding-out" of ToD as an Adventure Path was intended to mean -- and I think taken to mean -- that it would provide a similar experience to Pathfinder's highly successful AP line. While the jury is still out on that (at least MY jury is, as I have not read the published hardbound version of HotDQ to form my own views) the expressions of dismay in this thread would indicate that there are a lot of 5E DMs who were expecting something with less requirements for customization in order to be playable.

Generally, I think that an AP -- any AP -- benefits from experienced GMs making changes as are required for their particular group. I recommend it often.

That said, a well designed AP should not require intervention to be playable and enjoyable. It should merely benefit from it.

There is much that can be said about the relative strengths of AP vs ad libbed sandbox settings, but I was referring to "commercial success" in the quote you mentioned.

While I appreciate that many players (including yours) have different preferences, I think the market has indicated that the Pathfinder AP approach is the more commercially successful of the two in recent years.

You can go too far with it of course. It's only a hop skip and a jump to the original DragonLance, which while very commercially successful in its day - was the prototype AP the design of which has not stood the test of time.

 

[Supersonic159]

I'm so glad to hear this! I'm just finishing up the starter set with a group of people, so I've not yet started reading into it. But I'm glad the early reviews are positive so far!

 

[RangerWickett]

I would be interested in hearing why you believe this. Anecdotally, most of my players are strongly disinclined toward pathfinder APs because they are too scripted. While they all appreciate the production values, they usually get antsy and resentful of the heavy-handed tactics necessary to pull them forward along the story arc, and in order to get them to play wotc's adventures at all I had to persuade them that these were a totally different beast than the pathfinder APs.

I don't think what you're saying is wrong, necessarily, but it doesn't strike me as self-evidently true either. Why is a consistent, relatively DM-independent experience necessary for adventure lines to be most successful?

I'd be curious what your group's reaction to EN Publishing's ZEITGEIST adventure path would be. We have a series of adventures, and the links between them are fairly linear, but within each I think players get a lot of flexibility. I wish I could convert them to 5e.