Hobby Game Market Strong, RPGs Deeply Troubled

[Asmor]

the frequency and power of counterspelling in that game was an obvious inspiration to broaden the counterspelling options within D&D.

That's the part I'd like to see a reference for (i.e. someone from WotC saying that Magic was an inspiration for that), as that most definitely does not seem obvious to me.

Your logic seems to be:

Magic has many cards which can counter spells.
These cards are powerful.
D&D 3rd edition was designed by the same company which makes Magic.
D&D 3rd edition has more options for countering spells than previous editions.
Therefore, Magic inspired D&D's increase in counter spelling.

Which, to put it mildly, does not follow or even seem particularly likely to me.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

For the record, somehow Asmor's quote of me got attributed to Cadfan, and he had nothing to do with it.

Your logic seems to be:

Magic has many cards which can counter spells.
These cards are powerful.
D&D 3rd edition was designed by the same company which makes Magic.

Skipped step: "After M:tG had proven itself to be a popular product."

D&D 3rd edition has more options for countering spells than previous editions.
Therefore, Magic inspired D&D's increase in counter spelling.

Add to this that in almost every other dedicated FRPG (IOW, non-toolkit RPG like HERO or GURPS), counterspelling- if it exists- is largely skill driven, not spell driven. 3Ed's counterspelling explicitly requires either Dispel Magic or casting the same spell that is being cast (or an extremely similar one, if you have the Improved Counterspell feat). The only skill comes in identifying the spell to be countered.

This means that, just like in M:tG, you can only counterspell if you have the correct spell at your disposal.

Since counterspelling is spell driven, counterspelling attempts may also be countered. Again, much like M:tG.

Counterspelling also occurs regardless of the relative power of the spellcasters. Fireball counters Fireball, even if the attacker is 20th level and the defender is 6th, assuming the defender makes his Spellcraft check. In M:tG, only a few counterspells take into account the relative power of the spells or condition of the "Wizard"- countering works if the effects resolve. Most other systems have a mechanic by which a more powerful caster's spells are virtually uncounterable by lesser beings.

Yes, it is an inference, but hardly a stretch.

 

[Derulbaskul]

Eh- My instincts tell me Hasbro is more concerned about what they can tie into the D&D name than D&D itself. (snip)

And I would be too if I owned/managed Hasbro. Big companies need to extract big value from their brands and RPGs are a niche hobby. I'm still waiting for the real D&D movie with a real director and scriptwriter because Hasbro has already demonstrated with Transformers and arguably with G I Joe that they now know how to leverage value out of older brands.

This is good news for the RPG because it means there will be money to keep the RPG division floating.

 

[Cadfan]

That's the part I'd like to see a reference for (i.e. someone from WotC saying that Magic was an inspiration for that), as that most definitely does not seem obvious to me.

(snip)

Umm.

That was dannyalcatraz who said that, not me. When you were constructing your quote blocks, you got us mixed up.

 

[carmachu]

I cant say I buy much that GW is doing better/more sales in North America. Looking at their 1/2 report recently released, I seem to recall one anaylsis of it was:

"But after you strip out the £11.8M of exchange rate gains (the extra revenue generated by sales denominated in $ and Euros being worth morth in £ at the end of the year than at the beginning of it) and their Operating Profit £9M looks like a loss of nearly £3M - worse than last year. As I suspected their underlying performance has been modest, but they have profited handsomly from the demise of the £!"


Anyone have thier unit sales from last year and this year to compare?

 

[Asmor]

For the record, somehow Asmor's quote of me got attributed to Cadfan, and he had nothing to do with it.

Woops, sorry about that Danny and Cadfan. I had multi-quoted and forgot. My bad. >_>

Yes, it is an inference, but hardly a stretch.

There are some coincidences (and frankly even many of your examples seem like a stretch to be called coincidences, like countering counterspells). But the human brain is wired for finding coincidences and patterns even when examining two entirely unrelated things. See, for example, the entire field of numerology.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Oh, I admit its just an inference.

RPG books are a lot like law codes...on the surface.

Both contain rules and structure and are (sort of) organized to be of maximum use to the end consumer.

But Code books- the best ones, at least- have annotations that include some of the background assumptions and inspirations, legislative intent and discussions so that one can at least get a feel for the spirit of a law, in addition to the letter of it.

RPGs stop at the letter.

Until and unless someone gets a hold of one of the designers to actually answer the question, or until such annotations start showing up in the books, such discussions are stuck at the level of looking at patterns and making inferences.