Hobgoblins

[Jekolmy]

Just how tough should it be for a group of PCs about level 7 to take on a hobgoblin camp?
They seem to think its going to be a cakewalk but aren't hobgoblins a lot better than regular goblins. Basically a player wants to kill something while spending charges on a wand to get the wand sheath back.

I think that the camp should be a pretty tough encounter for them. Opinions?

Builds are Warforged Warlock, elf Cleric/Combat Medic, and a Fighter Deathknight, and a DM Rogue who has been trying to tell them to not do this yet.

Thanks.

 

[FalcWP]

All depends on the camp.

Are the hobgoblins a group of sentries outside the hobgoblin village? A raiding force? An invasion force? Women and children and old men who are staying behind?

Are they prepared for the attack? Do they have scouts and sentries making patrols? Or are they going to be caught completely by surprise?

Are there experienced warriors in the camp? Have they seen a lot of battle, and was it recent? Or are they all new recruits? How many hobgoblins are in this camp? A dozen? A hundred?

How about terrain? Have the hobgoblins fortified their position, or is it a mostly open camp. What time are the characters attacking? The hobgoblins have darkvision, not all of the PCs do.

It can be as easy or as difficult as you want to make it. If they launch an ambush and are fighting generic hobgoblins, the PCs might be able to handle dozens - a regular hobgoblin has one hit die, after all, and will fall in droves against 7th level PCs. If the hobgoblins are experienced or prepared, or both, its an entirely different story.

As for a comparison with regular goblins... hobgoblins are bigger and stronger, yes. But the stock hobgoblins aren't a significantly greater threat.

 

[Humanaut]

Personally, for a more organized military flavah, i like to give some Hobs the Feat Phalanx Fighting (forget the book). When next to each other = better AC with shield and REF save. They fight with light wpns (shortswords), but a spear to chuck before battle, maybe some archers in the rear... oh yeah!

Have fun!

 

[Hunter In Darkness]

How ever hobgoblins are a whole act as a military unit.There will be sentry's the camp will be fortified,there will be a plan in case of an attack,there will be archers prob wall and hot oil for a long standing camp.From the PHB. band:10-100 +50% non combatants + 1 3rd level sergeant per 20 adults and 1 leader of 4-6 level.a warband is 10-24 and normally for raids fast in fast out.and a tribe:30-300 1 sergeant per 20 adults,1-2 lieutenant 4-5th level a leader 6-8 level 2-4 dire wolfs and 1-4 ogres or 1-2 trolls,. now if this is eberron and its taking place in droaam. it will be hard if your doing it in dargunn its damned suicide. let them see the camp maybe run into a few patrols use the war bands . have the patrols alert the camp send 2 or more after them.let it sink in that this is not a good ideal at all.don't forget to trow in some wizards or adepts on those patrols. Do not be afraid to make your world real and make the players run like hell 4 people taking on a well organized military organization is stupid even if they are more skilled one on one.
.

 

[Kristian Serrano]

It depends. There's a Web Enhancment for the 3.5 MM that features a hobgoblin outpost. The highest encounter level (not effective character level) is somewhere around 5. However, that's just a factor of class levels and classes among the hobgoblin NPCs as most of them are 1st-level warriors. Basically, the answer is one about tactics rather than numbers.

 

[Desdichado]

:shrug: Only you can say. The thing about 3e and above is that you can't count on your bad guys simply being 0 level warriors or whatever. If my PC's were 7th level, they could expect grunts of 1st level warriors, a few higher level fighters, maybe a few other higher level PC classes as well.

If it were me, the encounter would be damn tough, but there you have it.

 

[Sigurd]

I recommend "Reality Deviants" Hobgoblins - Touch of Evil book.

Nice write up of their possibility.

Honestly, Hobgobs can be really scary powerful. Not so much individually as in their ability to work together and kill with a purpose. If you don't give them a chance to react intelligently to your player attack you will be selling them short.

IMC I'd count on them using tactics, polearms and formation fighting. Think sort of eight foot tall Spartans with lots of hair and teeth.


Sigurd

 

[blargney the second]

MMV has some neat hobgob variants that include spellcasters with specific tactics. Once they find out that there are spellcasters, they're more likely to pause.

 

[DariusOfCT]

Just how tough should it be for a group of PCs about level 7 to take on a hobgoblin camp?
They seem to think its going to be a cakewalk but aren't hobgoblins a lot better than regular goblins. Basically a player wants to kill something while spending charges on a wand to get the wand sheath back.

I think that the camp should be a pretty tough encounter for them. Opinions?

Builds are Warforged Warlock, elf Cleric/Combat Medic, and a Fighter Deathknight, and a DM Rogue who has been trying to tell them to not do this yet.

Thanks.

It's however tough you want it to be as a DM. Is this an encampment of 10 hobgoblins? 20? 50? 100?

If you want to really challenge them, throw in several hobgoblins with levels - after all, hobgoblins are Lawful/Evil, so likely would not be unprepared for trouble and disorganized. Even a few L2 or L3 rangers as hobgoblin scouts will make it tougher... then, maybe a cleric or two for healing their own wounded.

They'd have organized watches where they'd keep a vigilant watch, they'd use solid tactics in combat, including Aid Another. You can even have them set up their camp like the Romans legions used to do - they'd dig fortifications and everything. I believe they have average INT, so they would not do anything rash or stupid.

I'd recommend the "Strength & Honor: The Mighty Hobgoblins of Tellene" book from Kenzer & Co. as a good book on hobgoblins, if you have the time to read up on them before they try.

 

[Jekolmy]

I'm not exactly sure on the size of the encampment, but its big enough that the Hobgoblins have been closing the pass (good terrain) to merchants from raiding, and the couple of admittedly half hearted campaigns to push them out have failed miserably over the last 2 summers, especially with the border castle that they have taken over.

I'm going to say about 800-1000 Hobgoblins altogether with about 50% (500) in the main castle at any one time, another 30% (300) spread out on pickets/scouting and external fortifications, and the last 20%(200ish) raiding.

As for the temperment the Hobgoblins as a race are considered very militaristic and good mercs.. something that an outside power hasn't left unnoticed. Its going to be a tough run for them honestly. Most are going to be 1 or 2nd level characters with the officers higher and the Hobgoblin cheifetan's personal retinue (PC levels). I think thats pretty close to what I am thinking for the game.