Hobgoblins

[Stoat]

I put together a hobgoblin/goblin military encampment a few years ago. The total population was about 210, broken down as follows:

Command Group

Leader: Boss Druzhak, 5th Level Hobgoblin Fighter, 1st Level Blackguard
Priest Furzwurm, 4th Level Hobgoblin Cleric
Underpriests Illik, Graz, 2nd Level Hobgoblin Clerics
Lugash, 5th Level Hobgoblin Rogue
Underboss Skanz, 6th level Hobgoblin Warrior
Underbosses Urbratz, Ulpash, 3rd level Hobgoblin Warriors
Druzhak’s Boys: 17 1st level Hobgoblin Fighters
Druzhak’s Guard: 10 2nd level Hobgoblin Fighters

Charioteers

Underboss Igrutz, 3rd Level Hobgoblin Fighter
Lieutenant Zgatz, 3rd Level Hobgoblin Warrior
Lieutenant Tarz, 2nd Level Hobgoblin Ranger
33 Charioteers: 1st Level Hobgoblin Fighters

Troops

Underboss Zbotun, 3rd level Goblin Fighter
Lieutenants Razzog, Igglitz, Urzz, Lugbur, 2nd level Goblin Warriors
Razzog’s Boys: 20 Goblin Warriors -- Archers
Igglitz’ Boys: 20 Goblin Warriors -- Foot
Urrzz’ Boys: 20 Goblin Warriors -- Foot
Lugbur’s Boys: 20 Goblin Warriors -- Wolf Riders
Ibble, 2nd level Goblin Rogue
Shamans Redeye, Frazz, Lop-ear, 1st level Goblin Adepts

Shock Troops

Underboss Bertz, 3rd level Orc Barbarian
Lieutenants Bryll & Ptarg, 1st level Orc Barbarians
Shaman Urug, 2nd level Orc Adept
Shamans Gurug, Tarug, 1st level Orc Adepts
The Boyz: 36 1st level Orc Warriors
Stamp, Smash, Gnaw: 3 Ogres

Specialists

Fesh, 3rd level Hogoblin Rogue
Underboss Surizag, 3rd level Hobgoblin Sorcerer
Gunk, 5th level Goblin Expert [Weaponsmith]
Snotz, Urfutz, 2nd level Goblin Experts [Smiths/Carpenters]

The camp was set in a mountain valley due south of a natural pass/chokepoint. The pass was guarded by a wooden palisade and overlooked by spotter's nests. The area beyond featured a short stone tower for the hobgoblin command and a wooden longhouse for the charioteers. The goblins and orcs lived in tents and shacks.

The adventure was an infiltration/diplomacy mission for 3rd/4th level characters. A seventh level party could probably smoke the place.

Some ideas:

Use big groups of grunts with higher level leaders. 10 or 15 goblin warriors give an Ok fight if they've got a 3rd level hobgoblin fighter to lead them.

Custom build your troops. Stat up a basic infantryman with feats and gear specific to the role. Do the same with a basic archer. The standard MM hobgoblin/goblin is too much of a generalist and lacks good equipment.

Consider the mob template. IIRC, a mob is CR 8, which is about what you need. There was also a "troop" template floating around the Wizards boards that was supposed to represent a mob with military training. I've never used it, but it might prove fruitful:

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=637522

Good luck!

 

[blargney the second]

A few marshal squad leaders go an extremely long way to enhancing the effectiveness of an army. The dirgesinger bards from Eberron are great in the same vein.
-blarg

 

[Darklone]

Typical hobgoblins in my games:

Level 4 fighter archer, str/dex/con 16, weapon focus and spec composite longbow and +1 bow.
These buddies use hobgoblin grandbows... 1d12 exotic weapons I yoinked years ago from this or another board.

Shieldbearer, dudes with towershields and the shieldmate feats from the MiniHBs.

Pikemen, level 2 fighters.

With these three types I build phalanxes consisting of three rows where the shieldbearers guard all their buddies while there are still enough holes to avoid being fireball fodder... add some half-orc brutes as strike teams.

 

[Corsair]

Don't forget a couple Hobgoblin Bard1's mixed in with the back line archers!

 

[doghead]

adventure - Hobgoblins.

It sounds like you have a good little set up here.

My feeling, given the numbers you have suggested (800-1000) it should be fairly tough, if not impossible for the PC's to take on the hobgoblins in a straight up fight. Even an infiltration attempt would be fairly hard without good planning and preparation. As mentioned, according to the MM, a tribe of 300 has a leader around 6th to 8th level. Your hobgoblins, perhaps two or three tribes would have several at this level, plus one or two higher still, perhaps 8th to 10th. The hobgoblins know the area, having been their for a couple of years, and have had time to build fortifications and outposts, should they be inclined.

I would indicate to the players that taking on the hobgoblins will be dangerous. But if the players decide to go forward with it, let them. Don't set out to prove your point, but don't bend over backwards to save the PC's from themselves.

I like the idea of having the PC's tasked with something if they are captured. A geas is one way to make them do something they wouldn't normally do. But it may take the fun out of the game somewhat for the players.

Consider it from the hobgoblin point of view. What are their goals? How could the PC's be useful. Stripping the PC's of everything they own and sending them back to town could be used to send a message to the humans, especially if the PC's are well regarded as 'powerful heros'. If the Hobgoblins have an objective beyond just 'seizing the pass and making life difficult', then they might have other uses for the PC's. Say the hobgoblins want to establish their own territory, but the King won't receive the hobgoblin emissaries. Then they may consider using the PC's as intermediaries between themselves and the King.

doghead
aka thotd

 

[Jekolmy]

So I talked to one of the players last night and I realized that he wasn't talking about taking on the main camp without support... As it is he wants to harrass the scouts and the supply lines pretty much with support. Then as a part of that they are going to try to gain control of the choke point, I presume on the northern side of the castle on the southern side of the bridge across the river, cause they are coming from the north. Thats a bit more tactical detail than will be needed without being able to post much of a map really, or one of enough scale to see anything on here.

In any case the patrols go out on the north to about the swamp where for about the last 5 years mysterious things have been happening if the players at all bother to check into the history and/or the situation in any detail. So basically I am delaying the encounters with any sizable amount of Hobgoblins for a while so I can more exactly gauge the characters and their resources... they want to raid the camp in game two.

Thank you all for the advice and if you have anything more to contribute please do, this is turning into a much more plot central event than I originally planned and its working much better than I would have anticipated.

 

[pawsplay]

Just how tough should it be for a group of PCs about level 7 to take on a hobgoblin camp?
They seem to think its going to be a cakewalk but aren't hobgoblins a lot better than regular goblins. Basically a player wants to kill something while spending charges on a wand to get the wand sheath back.

I think that the camp should be a pretty tough encounter for them. Opinions?

Builds are Warforged Warlock, elf Cleric/Combat Medic, and a Fighter Deathknight, and a DM Rogue who has been trying to tell them to not do this yet.

Thanks.

The players are not thinking clearly.

Gang (4-9), band (10-100 plus 50% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults and 1 leader of 4th-6th level), warband (10-24), or tribe (30-300 plus 50% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 20 adults, 1 or 2 lieutenants of 4th or 5th level, 1 leader of 6th-8th level, 2-4 dire wolves, and 1-4 ogres or 1-2 trolls)

Any of those beyond "gang" should be a solid encounter for a 7th level party.

 

[S'mon]

So I talked to one of the players last night and I realized that he wasn't talking about taking on the main camp without support...

Pity, I was looking forward to reports of a '300' style battle.

 

[Hejdun]

Obviously a party of 7th level can't take out a hobgoblin army in one day. But the party has a lot of advantages.

1) They have time on their side. Who cares if it takes them 2 months to kill them all? The hobgoblins are just sitting there waiting for you to attack them.

2) They're more mobile. The hobgoblins are trying to defend something, so they're stuck at or near that something. The PCs are on the offensive, and thus can go wherever they please. They can go back to down and sleep behind walls if they want to.

3) The hobgoblins can't very well protect themselves from attrition.

Obviously the makeup of the party is rather important, but I don't see why a 7th level party can't kill a handful of hobgoblins (i.e. a patrol) each day for several weeks and whittle it down to nothing. Rogues can sneak up on sentries and sneak attack them to death in one round. Wizards at 7th level can fly and fireball, which could wipe out a handful of vanilla hobs in seconds. They can also cast illusions or invisibility (heck, even improved invisibility). (If said wizard has access to the spell Vortex of Teeth from the Spell Compendium, things get very nasty very quickly).

Druids can wildshape into an eagle and summon hordes of dire wolves and bears to shred the hobgoblins to pieces.

Fighters can... well... they can fire arrows and stuff. If they're proficient at mounted combat, they can pull off some nasty charges. They can shred small numbers of hobs, so long as they don't get swarmed.

The same problem always plagues hit-and-run missions. You have to be sure of your ability to retreat, otherwise it turns into a hit-and-die-horribly mission. That means that the first thing the players have to do is take out everything faster than they are. That means attacking anything mounted or with wings.

Personally as a player, these are the sorts of adventures that I just love. You have a goal and a worthy opponent and everything else is up to you. If you're smart and you plan things out, it's possible. On the other hand, if you make mistakes or get too aggressive or fall for traps, there will be severe consequences.

For DM tips, make sure you come up with logical ways to counter the strategies I just outlined. A hobgoblin army that big will have access to some resources. Maybe they swiped some baby hippogriffs and raised them as aeriel mounts. They are fast enough to track down anyone who tries to run away, and they can reach flying opponents.

Learn from what historical armies did to counter air power. They used props and decoys and camoflague. There's no reason the hobgoblins wouldn't do the same. Once the hobs realize what's going on, they can lay bait with illusions, or they can use magic to conceal their camp, etc. Look for ways to prevent the PCs from running away, such as entangle, tanglefoot bags, or tripping. Have a strong contingent of mounter warriors ready to react to any threats, and make sure sentries have some way of signalling for help (horns maybe?).

One thing that works surprisingly well is to just give every single regular hobgoblin extra hit points. Something with 5 hit points dies very, very quickly to 7th level characters. But something with 15-20 hit points can survive a fireball (with luck or a friendly cleric), can perhaps stand up to a hit from the party fighter, or live long enough to raise the alarm.