Hold Person vs Boots of Flying

[LokiDR]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: What dead debate? Their aint no dead debates here!

But they're non-stackable. They function independently of each other.

-Hyp.

No, they are mentioned as part of a whole. The work together, not independently. I see the fact that they don't stack as being evidence they are part of the same thing. The penalties are unnamed after all.

 

[Bismark]

I'm really torn here. Good arguments on both sides. By comparing Fly to other rules, it seems to be like you couldn't move. But by looking at the spell, it looks open to interpretation.

Fly states it requires as much concentration as walking. So that's an outright statement of a mental requirement, and possibly a physical requirement (plus the fact that it /is/ a form of movement, of some sort). But it does not outright say it requires physical effort. It implies it in some ways, especially with the armor, but it doesn't say it.

Of course, there's probably some feat out there that involves movement, but doesn't specifically state it requires physical action.

I'm just gonna flip a coin.

 

[LokiDR]

Fly states it requires as much concentration as walking. So that's an outright statement of a mental requirement, and possibly a physical requirement (plus the fact that it /is/ a form of movement, of some sort). But it does not outright say it requires physical effort. It implies it in some ways, especially with the armor, but it doesn't say it.

A character who can not walk (for most any reason) could still use the fly spell. The operative phrase is "as much concentration as walking". Note this is not the same as "the same action as walking". Concentration is the only thing the spell requires from its description. If something else was NEEDED then the spell would state it.

The lack of physical requirements on the spell make it relatively clear that it lacks physical requirements. Armor is a strange point, but that is obviously not encumbrance, as it would include other factors. I don't think there are any clear implications of physical movements required to move by the fly spell.

The fly spell does not give you physical qualities, like wings. It is only the magic that makes you fly like superman. Hold only stops physical qualities, not magical (mental) ones. Flying carpet is obviously out of the question, but telekinisis is obviously in. I can't find anything solid in fly to put the spell on the flying carpet side of the equation.

 

[Ender_3]

Thanks

Well, it was certainly and entertaining thread, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who found the vague rule descriptions open to interpretation.

Personally I go the route of you can still fly, as it is basically levitate with higher speed and directions, but I can certainly see all sides.

Sometimes things are the way they are because of game balance, or perhaps just indifferent design work (light vs heavy armor movement rate while flying). Not all things make sense (so why do I get an AoO against me when I drink a potion *after* moving away from combat?) but are there for game mechanics to work.

Thanks for all of the time and mental effort put into this thread.

E