Hold vs. Spelllika ability

[Winternight]

As I understand Spelllike abilities you can cast them while gageg, bound and naked. (without any componends).
Therefere it is possible for a holded balor to teleport away, right?

 

[Camarath]

I believe so since i think using Spell-like abilities only requires a mental action and I do not believe being Held prevents one from taking purely mental actions. But since the spell does say the target "cannot take any actions" I think the point is arguable.

 

[Jhyrryl]

And the glossary says...

3.5 PHB page 311. Definition of "paralyzed" is:

Frozen in place and unable to move or act, such as by the hold person spell. A paralyzed character has effective Dexterity and Strength scores of 0 and is helpless, but can take purely mental actions. A winged creature flying in the air at the time that it becomes paralyzed cannot flap its wings and falls. A pralyzed swimmer can't swim and may drown. A creature can move through a space occupied by a paralyzed creature - ally or not. Each square occupied by a paralyzed creature, however, counts as 2 squares.

So yes, purely mental actions are allowed to a held creature.

 

[Hypersmurf]

Gah. So they rewrite Hold Person in the PHB to say you can't take any actions - finally closing the "Can you Fly while held?" debate...

... and then they associate it with Paralyzed, and open it up again.

Double gah.

-Hyp.

 

[Darklone]

I really don't like it... Hold is a enchantment spell... it's purely mental control to make you do nothing.

Houserule.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Gah. So they rewrite Hold Person in the PHB to say you can't take any actions - finally closing the "Can you Fly while held?" debate...

... and then they associate it with Paralyzed, and open it up again.

They didn't open it up again, they clarified it in a way that you apparently disagree with. Entirely different things. I will admit that they dropped the ball in the sense that most spells reference the condition and leave it at that, rather than try to explain the condition in the spell text, but the spell quite clearly states that the effect is one of paralyzation, and paralyzation is quite clearly defined as an inability to take physical actions.

All it takes is a little bit of wisdom to recognize the intent here.

I really don't like it... Hold is a enchantment spell... it's purely mental control to make you do nothing.

That's right, they're low-level spells that suspend your mind's capacity to order your body around. The ability to suspend your mind's ability to think for itself is a higher-level ability; it's called dominate.

 

[Hypersmurf]

They didn't open it up again, they clarified it in a way that you apparently disagree with.

No, they didn't.

The argument about Fly is whether or not using a Fly spell is a purely mental action.

With the new Hold Person text (no actions), it doesn't matter if it's purely mental or not. But with the paralyzed text, it does again.

... so the can is open once more.

-Hyp.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Concentrating on the fly spell, despite only being a move action rather than a standard action, is still concentration on a spell, something that is a strictly mental action (and a notably easier action, at that). There is no "Superman-stance" requirement mentioned in the spell that forces the subject to move any part of the body to engage the magic's effect.

 

[Hypersmurf]

There is no "Superman-stance" requirement mentioned in the spell that forces the subject to move any part of the body to engage the magic's effect.

Then how come carrying hide armor (a light load) has no effect on your movement rate, but wearing hide armor (medium armor) slows you down?

If you're Held and wearing medium armor, do you fly more slowly than if you're Held and wearing light armor?

Flying takes as much concentration as walking, per the spell. Does that mean that walking is a purely mental action, and thus possible while Held?

-Hyp.

 

[Jhyrryl]

Nice bait attempt. I'll humor you.

Then how come carrying hide armor (a light load) has no effect on your movement rate, but wearing hide armor (medium armor) slows you down?

Carrying 25 pounds of folded up clothes in a pack weighs you down. Wearing 25 pounds worth of stiff clothing restricts your movements in addition to weighing you down.

If you're Held and wearing medium armor, do you fly more slowly than if you're Held and wearing light armor?

Yes, you fly more slowly while wearing medium armor than while wearing light; this is explained very well in the spell's description.

Flying takes as much concentration as walking, per the spell. Does that mean that walking is a purely mental action, and thus possible while Held?

I already covered this question in my previous post, while responding to Darklone. To summarize, paralyzation disrupts your mind's ability to communicate with your body, it does not disrupt your mind's ability to manipulate magical energies.

Now why, you are sure to ask, would wearing armor hinder magical flight if that flight didn't require bodily motion? The answer to which is because D&D is a game seeking simplified, abstract rules that facilitate ease-of-play more than it's a physics simulation. D&D has a single set of rules for dealing with flight (rules that I think are already overly complex), because it's easier than having seperate rules for magical flight versus mechanical flight versus hybrid mechamagical flight. The only allowed distinction is whether such flight is wing-powered or not.

Maybe that's not what you want, but don't argue that the rules are other than what they claim to be, based on speculation about hidden reasons behind why the rules were written they way they were.