D&D 5E Homebrew Assassin v4-ish?

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Alright, here is a fairly close to finished Assassin full class. Only a couple Guilds are currently usable, but the concept is there and I can expand on it based on feedback.

Shrouds are now a limited resource, and are a bit more mystical than they were first time around. Ritual casting is now just part of the class, in addition to the specialized tools, and the whole class is more mystical at later levels.

Shroud damage is based on comparison of rogue damage over a full day's worth of rounds compared to full caster spellpower translated into single target direct damage, and then adjusted by feel.

Killed Hindering Cut, will probably give it new life in a Guild. If you want similar mechanics, take the Poisoner's Kit Specialised Tool. I've almost excised the idea of a "vulnerable target" from the class. If it comes back, it will be a feature that takes part of the damage buff of shrouds and puts it outside that mechanics and makes it an at-will but situational buff. ie, remove expanded crit range from shrouds, and make it it's own feature that comes into play when you attack someone that is Charmed, Frightened, Incapacitated, Poisoned, Restrained, or Surprised.

I really like that. I will do that later today or something.

Anyway, tell me what you think.

@vincegetorix @TwoSix @Fenris-77 @Charlaquin and anyone else that has given me feedback in the past or asked about these classes, let me know!
 

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doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
fixed the document not having a background and the blank first page.

I also did what I said in the OP, and got rid of the hindering cut and took the crit benefit out of Shrouds, and added the following to Lethal:

Additionally, when you attack a creature that is Vulnerable to you, your attacks are critical hits on a roll of 19-20.

When I get another chance to do some editing, I will review for whether I can add a CR based "save or die" effect, perhaps to crits. So when you crit a creature of CR XYZ or lower, they must make a con save vs your AssAss DC or die.
 

TwoSix

Unserious gamer
Hopefully I can look later tonight or tomorrow. First pass looks good on the overall details, need to dive into the action economy of the low-level features.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Hopefully I can look later tonight or tomorrow. First pass looks good on the overall details, need to dive into the action economy of the low-level features.
Sweet. I think I’ve got the action economy into a good place. Very different from rogues, and only beefier when you spend shrouds.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Ideas that came up when showing my wife today.

Doppleganger Guild should get some charm stuff as well, and a good capstone would be to create illusions in the mind of a frightened creature, making them move where you want.

The Guilds that assume the use of a tool need togrant proficiency in that tool. This means that you can be a Doppelganger with a specialized Poisoner's Kit, or a Tinker's Tools using Manticore, without any problems.

Level 11 probably change the last part of lethal efficiency to "target under CR whatever has to save or drop to 0 if you crit on them". Also fix the crit benefit to be "targets that are vulnerable to you" rather than "shroud targets".

I'm really excited about how the defense abilities work together, and how Shroud and Lethal work together to reward certain tactics and Shadow Moves works to facilitate those tactics, creating very deadly rounds where you can dart in, merc someone, and disappear, when it all goes right.

Excited as well that the couple guilds I've got a good handle on really make you excel at their implied tactics in and out of combat. Peryton maybe needs more out of combat, but I like all the movement stuff and perception stuff.
 

vincegetorix

Jewel of the North
Ok, great work! There's a lot going here: shrouds/vulnerable/shadow moves/tools. I think I restrict some stuff to use it for your archetype features. Here are my quick suggestions.

1: Shrouds
Keep mostly as-is, with the damage rider that looks a lot like the one from 4e.
Add: Placing and Invoking is a bonus action. At level 11, you can place 2 shrouds on the same target of different ones when you use the feature and 3 shrouds at 17th level.

The ritual to regain shroud on a ritual should be here.

** Ritualist tools
I'd make it a simple proficiency in your proficiency list at chargen, with a little block on the side to describe what it contains and its general use. No need of a whole feature to describe a new item.

1: Shadow Move
When you start your turn in a space obscured by dim light, a crowd or a natural feature such as foliage or fog, you can use your bonus action to gain one of the following bonus:

  • You can take the Hide Action even if only lightly obscured or the Dodge action as a Shadow Move.
  • You can give yourself a speed bonus of 15 ft, gaining a climb speed equal to your speed until the end of your turn.
  • Make a single attack with attack. Hit or miss, making the attack doesn't reveal your position and the target has disadvantage to any save to resist the effect of a poison from that attack.



2: Tool Expertise
Choose either Disguise kit, Poisoner kit, Thieves' tools or Ritualist kit. You proficiency is doubled when making an ability roll using this tool. Furthermore you gain improved uses for this tools.

Poisoner kit: Your shroud can deal poison damage, in which case the damage die increases to d12. As part of your shadow move, you can poison your weapon. The next creature hit by this weapon must make a Constitution saving throw or be poisoned until the end of your next turn.

Disguise kit: You gain a number of personas equal to your proficiency bonus. Upon donning a disguise as part of your shadow move and behaving as your persona, you are unidentifiable as your true self. By removing your disguise and revealing your true face, you are no longer identifiable as your persona. This allows you to change appearances between your two personalities as often as you wish, using one to hide the other or serve as convenient camouflage. However, should someone realize the connection between your persona and your true self, your deception might lose its effectiveness.

Tinker Tools: You have advantage on sleight of hands check to hide an item of your person. As part of your shadow move, you can stow or ready an hidden weapon. This weapon can not be removed from your grasp and you have advantage on your next weapon attack after you ready it.

Ritualist kit: as is.

Lethal: as is.



Parry: I'd make it level 3 and mix the riposte with. If you reduce the damage to 0 hp, you can use your reaction to make an attack.




5: Extra attack, good.




6: Shadowed steps
As an action, you shroud your image from the mind of one creature with at least one of your shroud on them that you can see within 120 feet of you; the target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, or you are invisible to it until the end of your next turn.



7: Evasion, good.



9: Advanced tools

Disguise
kit: After a long rest, you and up to 5 allies can benefit from one of your persona.

The other can be as they are.



10 :Fear and Shadow
When you invoke a shroud from an enemy, you can forgo the damage dice to instead force it to make a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you for 1 minute. The target can make the save again at the end of each of their turn for the duration of the effect.



11: Heart Seeker
As an action, learn the current HP and resistance/Immunity of a creature within 120 ft of you that you can see.

Furthermore, you can make an attack that phases through most defenses. As an action, you can make one attack with your weapon. Treat the target's AC as 10 against this attack, regardless of the target's actual AC.








And that's all for tonight. I'll go to sleep, I work this weekend.
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Ok, great work! There's a lot going here: shrouds/vulnerable/shadow moves/tools. I think I restrict some stuff to use it for your archetype features. Here are my quick suggestions.
I'll withold certainty until I get a chance to playtest the current iteration, but i think the current dynamic works pretty smoothly and intuitively in play. The class basically rewards you for doing what the class tells you to do.
1: Shrouds
Keep mostly as-is, with the damage rider that looks a lot like the one from 4e.
Add: Placing and Invoking is a bonus action. At level 11, you can place 2 shrouds on the same target of different ones when you use the feature and 3 shrouds at 17th level.
I could see making placing the shrouds a bonus action if I were simply adding a class to stock 5e, but I think it's a good goal to not overload the bonus action. It's
The ritual to regain shroud on a ritual should be here.
That's fair
** Ritualist tools
I'd make it a simple proficiency in your proficiency list at chargen, with a little block on the side to describe what it contains and its general use. No need of a whole feature to describe a new item.
Also fair. To note, I may have failed on the format and wording, but I changed Ritual Tools today to be automatic, and you also gain one of the other options.
1: Shadow Move
When you start your turn in a space obscured by dim light, a crowd or a natural feature such as foliage or fog, you can use your bonus action to gain one of the following bonus:
I'm definitely not sold on changing the action economy to relying entirely on bonus actions for shadow moves.
  • You can take the Hide Action even if only lightly obscured or the Dodge action as a Shadow Move.
I don't mind simplifying the hide part to just any light obscurement, but idk about Dodge rather than an AC boost.
  • You can give yourself a speed bonus of 15 ft, gaining a climb speed equal to your speed until the end of your turn.
Fair. Ignoring difficult terrain is possibly a later upgrade, but it's a great way to model parkouring about.
  • Make a single attack with attack. Hit or miss, making the attack doesn't reveal your position and the target has disadvantage to any save to resist the effect of a poison from that attack.
This feels, at a glance, more powerful. It basically obviates a lot of why you'd hide as a shadow move, which is simpler perhaps, but it's still running into the action economy (especially after level 5 when you've got 2 attacks to potentially do this stuff with) problem of getting rid of being able to swap an attack for these moves.



2: Tool Expertise
Choose either Disguise kit, Poisoner kit, Thieves' tools or Ritualist kit. You proficiency is doubled when making an ability roll using this tool. Furthermore you gain improved uses for this tools.
I strongly prefer stealth and a tool or skill of the player's choice.
Poisoner kit: Your shroud can deal poison damage, in which case the damage die increases to d12. As part of your shadow move, you can poison your weapon. The next creature hit by this weapon must make a Constitution saving throw or be poisoned until the end of your next turn.
I like being able to deal poison damage with shrouds, but being able to learn to make new poisons and to make different poisons with different effects from the basic poison is pretty much the point of this feature, for me. Making a Poisoner, not just a guy who can attack with poisoned weapons.
Disguise kit: You gain a number of personas equal to your proficiency bonus. Upon donning a disguise as part of your shadow move and behaving as your persona, you are unidentifiable as your true self. By removing your disguise and revealing your true face, you are no longer identifiable as your persona. This allows you to change appearances between your two personalities as often as you wish, using one to hide the other or serve as convenient camouflage. However, should someone realize the connection between your persona and your true self, your deception might lose its effectiveness.
Some of this wording works better than mine, for sure. But again the feature is about making disguises using special tools, and having to choose your personas wisely before a job. Probably limiting the quick-change to 2; the one you go in wearing, and the one you can switch to.

To combine my ideas and yours; Being able to ditch a persona and make a new one, give one to a friend, and being able to don a disguise as a shadow move, and have your disguise built into your clothes/gear so you can just comb your hair and turn your jacket inside out, is where I think a good balance lives.
Tinker Tools: You have advantage on sleight of hands check to hide an item of your person. As part of your shadow move, you can stow or ready an hidden weapon. This weapon can not be removed from your grasp and you have advantage on your next weapon attack after you ready it.
So, I get where you're coming from here, but part of the point of the project here is to make a versatile and interesting esoteric assassin, and the tools feature is there to ground the assassin in having tools and making things with them. Also, gaining advantage as part of using a shadow move is very potent.
Ritualist kit: as is.

Lethal: as is.



Parry: I'd make it level 3 and mix the riposte with. If you reduce the damage to 0 hp, you can use your reaction to make an attack.
Totally get what you mean. I'll consider it, but I do like how it takes a couple levels for fully come together.
6: Shadowed steps
As an action, you shroud your image from the mind of one creature with at least one of your shroud on them that you can see within 120 feet of you; the target must succeed on a Wisdom saving throw, or you are invisible to it until the end of your next turn.
I'd probably use this for the Wraith Guild, which is the very magical subclass.
9: Advanced tools

Disguise
kit: After a long rest, you and up to 5 allies can benefit from one of your persona.
I'm guessing you mean that you can make a generalized disguise, such as "a group of clerks" or "king's guards"?
10 :Fear and Shadow
When you invoke a shroud from an enemy, you can forgo the damage dice to instead force it to make a Wisdom saving throw or be frightened of you for 1 minute. The target can make the save again at the end of each of their turn for the duration of the effect.
This might be better wording, especially since it basically works similarly to Wrathful Smite.
11: Heart Seeker
As an action, learn the current HP and resistance/Immunity of a creature within 120 ft of you that you can see.

Furthermore, you can make an attack that phases through most defenses. As an action, you can make one attack with your weapon. Treat the target's AC as 10 against this attack, regardless of the target's actual AC.

This might be a good ability for a subclass, but i think upgrading Lethal is the way I wanna go.
And that's all for tonight. I'll go to sleep, I work this weekend.
Thanks! I may disagree with a lot of it, but it's very useful!
 

doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
more thoughts, from my wife and best friend.

Drop restrained from Vulnerable and add Blinded.

The class gets access to things like assassin contacts (find out who wants who dead, and send information to other assassins, guild houses, etc), hidden caches of supplies, and safe houses.
 


doctorbadwolf

Heretic of The Seventh Circle
Changes.

Cleaned up some wordings, still plenty of that left to do.

Added a ribbon ability, Priveleges of Membership, at level 3. Each of the classes in this project will have stuff like this built in.

Changes list of conditions for Vulnerable state. Should I add langauge that makes creatures vulnerable to your if they are unaware of your presence? Perhaps instead of requiring Surprised condition? Relying on Surprise is a problem for PHB rogue assassins, after all.
 

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