[Homebrew help] Royalty

[Luiz d'Artayn]

This may be more of a "DM Stuff" enquiry, but I couldn't see a good sub-forum there for it. (I hope you will indulge a newbie if I was wrong.)

I'm looking for information on royal titles/forms-of-address for my homebrew campaign. I've found some good information over ye olde net but there are a couple of things that I can't figure out:

What is the title of the male heir to the throne (of a Kingdom) called during a period of Regency? That is, his ma and pa, the Queen and King, are dead, he's next in line, but he isn't yet old enough to be crowned, so there's a Regent in place of a King for a while. Is he still just called "Prince ____" during this time?

I'm assuming that once he is crowned, he becomes "King" even if he is not married, right?

The setting is much akin to feudal Europe, 16-18th Centuries ... but with some magic thrown into the mix.

Sorry, I know I could just "Rule 0" my system of monarchy, etc, but I'm a stickler for details like this

I appreciate any assistance on this ... even more so if it came with phat linkage about such things, so that I'd not be bothering you further.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

No phat linkage, I'm afraid.

If the Crown Prince's parents die, he becomes King regardless of his age. He assumes power when he comes of age, but the title of King is legitimately his from the moment of his father's death. A Regent assumes the power of the king, but having a regent does not prevent the heir from claiming his title.

The Crown Prince need not be married to assume the throne. (Out of curiosity, do you have some phat linkage to a site which claims this? I've never encountered this idea before...)

 

[Luiz d'Artayn]

Ah great

That's one problem solved, thanks

Crown Prince = Heir, yes? ... whereas his younger brothers are just "Princes" I am assuming. (I hadn't yet gotten my head around what a crown prince was exactly.)

The most useful site I've found so far is about the British system of titles/peerages - it's reasonably useful for terms-of-address etc, and being British is close to what I'm attempting to emulate. Unfortunately it doesn't address the actual royal family itself.

(British Titles of Nobility)

Most net searches I've tried just point me to dodgy places where I might BUY a title.

 

[Lord Pendragon]

LOL! Your post got me interested in double-checking what I do and don't know, so I went online and was reading the very site you've linked to, before seeing your reply. Guess great minds search the net alike.

Yes, the Crown Prince is the heir to the throne, while any brothers he may have are merely princes.

 

[Deadguy]

Hoping that this doesn't confuse:

Royalty often also bear subsidiary titles, titles for land that are traditionally Crown lands or have reverted to the Crown. These can then be doled out by the monarch to members of his own family. Taking a couple of real world examples: when Prince Philip married Queen Elizabeth, he was created Duke of Edinburgh. The British (male) royal heir is always created Prince of Wales, and gains the title to (and revenues of) the Duchy of Cornwall.

These subsidiary titles are important because it is these lands that provide incomes to support the monarch's siblings and children (at least in a mediaeval setting). So King Vestus' younger brother, Prince Styrcus, might also be the Duke of Vessland, Viscount of Calastria and Earl of Sawardean - titles gifted by the King to support the Prince. These lands provide revenues, are likely where he will have residences and generally where he will raise his feudal levies (fighting men).

I mention this because there is a tendency in fantasy to assume "One Person = One Title" and vice versa. This has rarely ever been true for the more powerful nobility and monarchs. if you want to see how confusing it gets, then look up the details of the English king Henry II - at his neight the most powerful monarch in Christendom, and holder of lands through many, many titles.

 

[Tonguez]

Also all those 'other' titles have specific meanings within the hierarchy

Prince a male heir in direct line of succession from the ruling sovereign (ie the crown prince and his brothers and the crown princes sons)

Duke = Military leader. This is a Royal Title and the Duchy provides income for the Monarch (Queen Elizabeth of England is 'Duke' of Lancaster', the Crown Prince Charles is Duke of Cornwall.)

Marquess = 'Lord of the Marches (Borders). Because the Border Marches were dangerous places the Marquess was given broad powers and was essentially an independent Warlord.

Count = 'Lord of the County' Earl is the equivalent (but derived from Norse rather than Latin) - this is why a Earls wife is a Countess. Counts are 'County governors' responsible for collecting taxes and imposing law. Counts also orignally served as the Shire-Reeve (Sheriff) or (in later times) employed that official.

Viscount = Vice-Count, the Counts deputy

Baron = Noble, a term used for anyone holding land directly from the Grant of the Monarch

Baronet = aristocrat with a hereditary Knighthood. In Britain the Baronet title does not bestow Peerage (ie a Baronet title is not a Noble one on its own)

 

[Luiz d'Artayn]

Yep I've pretty much got those other (lesser) titles sorted.

Deadguy,

Yep, I'm aware of the plethora of titles that many nobles, particularly the highest ones, hold, and how important it is for their income. But as far as the core royal family go though, in my setting, they won't be having extra titles and the revenues that come with them (from the lands associated with the titles). It's purely the tithes of the vassal nobles that keep them afloat financially ... which is bound to cause problems (campaign hook #5,627 ).

---

Thanks for the help.

 

[Gez]

Also, note that all princes are not heirs to kings (for example, the Prince of Monaco is not the heir of a hypothetic king of Monaco).

Finally, some titles are just made up for a precise individual. In France, the brother of King Louis XIV was called "Monsieur" (Mister). It was a title. Of course, you had Mister Smiths, but when you said just "Mister", it was to designate the brother of the King. Similarly, some titles may seems a bit strange: the Crown Prince, in France, was called the Dolphin (le Deauphin). The Dolphin, until he became king, was given a land that is thus known as the Deauphiné. (And in turn, a potatoe-based meal from this region is known as "gratin deauphinois").

Hierarchy (with French words between parens, just in case this is useful):
Baronet (Baronnet) Knight (Chevalier) -- May be without lands
Baron/Baroness (Baron/Baronne)
Viscount (Vicomte/Vicomtesse)
Count (Comte/Comtesse)
Marquess (Marquis/Marquise)
Duke/Duchess (Duc/Duchesse)
Prince/Princess (Prince/Princesse)
King/Queen (Roi/Reine)

Marquess started out as "beefed-up" counts, so a marquess can be called "count of the March".
Duke holds great power, and you had independant duchies. As, to please the ambitious, more and more petty nobles with little domains were called duke, the terms "Grand Duchy" and "Grand Duke" were coined. But well... An example of Grand Duchy is the Luxembourg (you need a magnifying glass to find it on a map), one example of duchy is Little Britain (nearly all the west peninsula of France). The power of counts was by order of magintude below the power of dukes; a duke holds a whole region while a count holds a big city. And a baron holds a small city or a village.