[Homebrew] Warlock Patron: The Bestower(Magical Girl Inspired Archtype)(Reworked Hexblade)

[Bringer]

That being said, I don't think the weapon summoning is specifically necessary, mostly because it becomes redundant with pact of the blade. The spell list and the abilities push you towards pact of the blade, much like Hexblade, but it isn't necessarily required.

I agree with this.

The weapon summoning is mostly thematic, as when a magical girl transforms in the genre she usually also creates a iconic weapon. It's why they only have proficiency with martial weapons and shields when transformed, and no longer have the proficiency when no longer transformed. It can be fulfilled with pact of blade, but I didn't want the Bestower Warlock to have to wait until level 3. My train of thought was that a Hexblade gets 24/7 medium armor and martial weapon proficiency, which wouldn't work with what I was going for with this class.

1) Lower the AC bonus to 16 or 17 to start. There's a reason that full plate (which is AC 18, with no Dex requirement) costs 1,500 gp; it's because PCs shouldn't have it at 1st level. We don't have a PHB example of a magical ability that gives you a heavy armor equivalent AC calculation, so I would look at the text in the equipment section for heavy armor for the best way to word it. Emphasize that it specifically doesn't gain AC from a higher Dex, it doesn't have a Strength requirement, and that it stacks with shields, but no other armor. (And don't use barkskin as a model, that spell has some of of the worst wording in the entire PHB.)

I'll do this.

The reason why I made the AC 18 was because I was scaling it with the future potential of medium armor. I assume most Hexblade's will eventually get +3 Half Plate armor end game, bringing their AC to 20, but you're correct that I didn't take into account that Hexblade's need a 14 in Dexterity to pull that off, while the Bestower doesn't. I'll probably make the starting AC 16, and have it increase and level 9 and 17 as normal, bringing for a final AC of 18(which can still be increased by shields or abilities that give +1 AC like the Warforged UA race)

2) The +Cha to attack ability is probably overly broad for level 1. Remember, Hexblade only allows it for 1-handed weapons until you hit level 3 and take blade pact. The current conception would allow you to take a one level dip, and then do a bard build with +Cha to bow attacks, Elven Accuracy, Sharpshooter, and Swift Quiver, which would be amazing.

While this is true, it should be noted that the transformation does take an action to use. With the exception of a fighters action surge, the character would have to give up the first round of combat to transform instead of dealing damage, and combat typically doesn't go longer than 3-4 rounds.

Also, I'm toying with the idea of making the transformation twice per short rest, but instead of lasting an hour, it lasts a number of minutes equal to Warlock level. Do you think this might be more overpowered than the once per short rest but 1 hour?

3) Remember that giving out armor with no Dex requirement means this character can dump both Str and Dex (normally not doable if you want a decent AC.) That's quite strong in a point buy environment, and means the other abilities need to be considered in that context.

This is true while they are transformed, but they'll spend more time not transformed than transformed in the game. It's once per short rest and lasts an hour, and assuming there is an abundance of conflict in a day, there will be fights where they'll need dexterity for their AC, or need the extra boost in saving throws. They have no proficiency in martial weapons or shields when not transformed, and don't get medium armor proficiency like Hexblades.

4) Remember, you can always add higher level powers in the form of new, patron-specific, invocations. Not everything needs to fit into the 1-6-10-14 ability paradigm.

This is a good point. Which ability would you recommend making an invocation? I'm leaning towards the end transformation avoid death with 1 hit point ability.

 

[TwoSix]

The weapon summoning is mostly thematic, as when a magical girl transforms in the genre she usually also creates a iconic weapon. It's why they only have proficiency with martial weapons and shields when transformed, and no longer have the proficiency when no longer transformed. It can be fulfilled with pact of blade, but I didn't want the Bestower Warlock to have to wait until level 3. My train of thought was that a Hexblade gets 24/7 medium armor and martial weapon proficiency, which wouldn't work with what I was going for with this class.

Yea, it's probably fine. I was thinking more of the Sailor Scout type of magical girl, who usually don't have weapons but rely on energy blasts, which can be modeled with warlock cantrips. But your version leans martially, so I think the summoned weapons are fine. Gaining access to equipment you could have just bought anyway can't really be a balance problem, by definition.

The reason why I made the AC 18 was because I was scaling it with the future potential of medium armor. I assume most Hexblade's will eventually get +3 Half Plate armor end game, bringing their AC to 20, but you're correct that I didn't take into account that Hexblade's need a 14 in Dexterity to pull that off, while the Bestower doesn't. I'll probably make the starting AC 16, and have it increase and level 9 and 17 as normal, bringing for a final AC of 18(which can still be increased by shields or abilities that give +1 AC like the Warforged UA race)

You should always be cautious with homebrew that assumes magic item progression, as many 5e games have little to no magic items. I, personally, tend to be fairly liberal with magic items, but in 5e, I'm quite stingy with magic armor specifically. Characters with ACs of 22+ baseline can cause problems.

While this is true, it should be noted that the transformation does take an action to use. With the exception of a fighters action surge, the character would have to give up the first round of combat to transform instead of dealing damage, and combat typically doesn't go longer than 3-4 rounds.

Also, I'm toying with the idea of making the transformation twice per short rest, but instead of lasting an hour, it lasts a number of minutes equal to Warlock level. Do you think this might be more overpowered than the once per short rest but 1 hour?

I'd lean towards twice per short rest, for 1 minute. Adding on times greater than a minute generally just causes you to have to track more stuff outside of combat, since combat very rarely exceeds 10 rounds (1 minute), and doesn't really add much capability to the character. "Twice per short rest" also means you can balance features under the assumption that the transformation will be on for combat, and off otherwise, as two encounters per short rest is the assumed 5e standard.

On those rare occasions when there is a 3rd or 4th fight before a short rest, well, good! It will emphasize to the player the nature of the magical girl archetype, which makes the game more fun. And if having non-transformed capabilities is really important to the player or the character concept, that's exactly the thing that multiclassing is for.

This is a good point. Which ability would you recommend making an invocation? I'm leaning towards the end transformation avoid death with 1 hit point ability.

Off the top of my head:

No level requirement: The bestower can stay in transformation for 1 hour per use.
7th level: When the bestower reaches 0 hit points, they remain at 1 HP, but the transformation ends.
Something like Cloak of Flies (Aura of Glory?), that gives advantage on Persuasion checks and does radiant damage in an aura.
Some invocations that give a decent cleric spell, 1/LR, no slot required.

 

[Bringer]

Yea, it's probably fine. I was thinking more of the Sailor Scout type of magical girl, who usually don't have weapons but rely on energy blasts, which can be modeled with warlock cantrips. But your version leans martially, so I think the summoned weapons are fine. Gaining access to equipment you could have just bought anyway can't really be a balance problem, by definition.




You should always be cautious with homebrew that assumes magic item progression, as many 5e games have little to no magic items. I, personally, tend to be fairly liberal with magic items, but in 5e, I'm quite stingy with magic armor specifically. Characters with ACs of 22+ baseline can cause problems.



I'd lean towards twice per short rest, for 1 minute. Adding on times greater than a minute generally just causes you to have to track more stuff outside of combat, since combat very rarely exceeds 10 rounds (1 minute), and doesn't really add much capability to the character. "Twice per short rest" also means you can balance features under the assumption that the transformation will be on for combat, and off otherwise, as two encounters per short rest is the assumed 5e standard.

On those rare occasions when there is a 3rd or 4th fight before a short rest, well, good! It will emphasize to the player the nature of the magical girl archetype, which makes the game more fun. And if having non-transformed capabilities is really important to the player or the character concept, that's exactly the thing that multiclassing is for.



Off the top of my head:

No level requirement: The bestower can stay in transformation for 1 hour per use.
7th level: When the bestower reaches 0 hit points, they remain at 1 HP, but the transformation ends.
Something like Cloak of Flies (Aura of Glory?), that gives advantage on Persuasion checks and does radiant damage in an aura.
Some invocations that give a decent cleric spell, 1/LR, no slot required.

Thank you. I really appreciate all the constructive criticism and ideas you have given me.

 

[neogod22]

I agree with this.

The weapon summoning is mostly thematic, as when a magical girl transforms in the genre she usually also creates a iconic weapon. It's why they only have proficiency with martial weapons and shields when transformed, and no longer have the proficiency when no longer transformed. It can be fulfilled with pact of blade, but I didn't want the Bestower Warlock to have to wait until level 3. My train of thought was that a Hexblade gets 24/7 medium armor and martial weapon proficiency, which wouldn't work with what I was going for with this class.



I'll do this.

The reason why I made the AC 18 was because I was scaling it with the future potential of medium armor. I assume most Hexblade's will eventually get +3 Half Plate armor end game, bringing their AC to 20, but you're correct that I didn't take into account that Hexblade's need a 14 in Dexterity to pull that off, while the Bestower doesn't. I'll probably make the starting AC 16, and have it increase and level 9 and 17 as normal, bringing for a final AC of 18(which can still be increased by shields or abilities that give +1 AC like the Warforged UA race)




While this is true, it should be noted that the transformation does take an action to use. With the exception of a fighters action surge, the character would have to give up the first round of combat to transform instead of dealing damage, and combat typically doesn't go longer than 3-4 rounds.

Also, I'm toying with the idea of making the transformation twice per short rest, but instead of lasting an hour, it lasts a number of minutes equal to Warlock level. Do you think this might be more overpowered than the once per short rest but 1 hour?



This is true while they are transformed, but they'll spend more time not transformed than transformed in the game. It's once per short rest and lasts an hour, and assuming there is an abundance of conflict in a day, there will be fights where they'll need dexterity for their AC, or need the extra boost in saving throws. They have no proficiency in martial weapons or shields when not transformed, and don't get medium armor proficiency like Hexblades.



This is a good point. Which ability would you recommend making an invocation? I'm leaning towards the end transformation avoid death with 1 hit point ability.

Is the idea to make a class for you personally or to make a class for everyone else? I ask this because you have some very specific ideas on how this should be played and making a lot of assumptions. Someone else may want to pay it vastly different than you.

I have a few ideas.
1. Martial weapons instead of summoning. 2 reasons. 1, you don't need to worry about waiting to get to level 3 for summoning a weapon, that should only take 2-3 sessions. 2, summoned items and powers disappear when in areas where magic doesn't work. Plus don't make the Pact of the Blade obsolete.

2. If your transformation is going to make magic armor list it as such. It shouldn't be anything stronger than PC starting equipment, so you can say it creates a magical suit of heavy armor AC16 that the warlock is proficient with would be fine. But it should stop there. Give the players options on what they want to do. Don't make the ability so strong that they would want to forsake magic items.

3. Make the transformation use a spell slot. And the duration last 1min. This should balance how powerful the transformation is.

4. Change your lvl 6 ability, maybe the drop to 1 instead of 0 could be your lvl 6 ability with a 1/long rest cool down.

5. Change your lvl 10 ability, don't copy the Hexblade. Maybe give him resistance to nonmagical bludgeoning, piercing and slashing while transformed.

6. Change your level 14 ability maybe to some sort of attack that has a cool rest cool down.