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5E [Homebrew] Weapon damage and keywords by Proficiency

Blue

Orcus on a bad hair day
Just playing around, what do you think about damage and keywords by proficiency. To allow simple weapons to be wielded more effectively in the hands of people who know how to get the most out of weapons, and also potentially make them viable choices for weapon wielders such that half the weapons table isn't mostly ignored.

It could also be the basis for adding in another column, perhaps called "Specialized" or "Mastery" that can grant even additional die and keywords if you have a feat/class feature to allow it. Perhaps racial weapons automatically upgrade to that if you also have them via Martial weapon proficiency, to keep that racial feature relevant.

Short sample chart:
SimpleMartialSpecialized
Unarmed1, lightd4, light, finessed6, light, finesse, versatile (d8)
Light Hammerd4, light, throw (20/40)d6, light, thrown (30/60)d8, light, thrown (30/120)
Greatclubd8, two handedd10, two handed2d6, two handed
Battleaxe-d8, versatile (d10)d10, versatile (d12)
Greataxe-d12, two handed, heavy2d8, two handed, heavy
 

coolAlias

Explorer
It's kind of the opposite of what 5e is going for (simplicity), but I think it could be fun.

Definitely worth trying out at your table and seeing how it goes.

The only downside I can see is it could be overly punishing for non-martial characters, effectively making attacking with a weapon the least effective choice in all situations.
 

Blue

Orcus on a bad hair day
It's kind of the opposite of what 5e is going for (simplicity), but I think it could be fun.

Definitely worth trying out at your table and seeing how it goes.

The only downside I can see is it could be overly punishing for non-martial characters, effectively making attacking with a weapon the least effective choice in all situations.
It wouldn't be reducing the Simple damage categories ... well, I did reduce the Light Hammer range from (20/60 to 20/40). But it was leaving them so that damage doesn't change much. Martial proficiency was just making Simple weapons in the range of existing Martial weapons just so they could see some play. And even there I was trying to be careful - for example Great Club has Two Handed but not Heavy, so it was only d10 as a Martial, not d12.

Now, Specialized does make weapons more powerful. After sleeping on this, I'm wondering if that ends up becoming a feat tax to get where every weapon wielder would want it. If so, I should drop it off. It is already butting against the removal of abilities from earlier editions that made characters only good at one type of weapon and restricted magic item access (since a +1 weapon of another type was a downgrade for you).
 

dave2008

Adventurer
I like the idea. I've often thought that weapon damage / properties should be tied to proficiency / training in that weapon.
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
So, you are sort of going for weapon progression like BECMI? I would simply the chart aspect a bit more and just show the changes in damage/range.

It isn't a bad idea at all, but I would probably not bother since we already have house-rules for weapon properties although they are not tied into any sort of proficiency levels. And honestly, I waver a lot on how many house-rules to implement... there are times I just want to say, "Screw it, we are going back to strict RAW--no house-rules."

Still, it'll be interesting if you eventually post a full weapons' table.
 

Fanaelialae

Adventurer
Specialized seems like it could be a bit much perhaps, but I see nothing wrong with a simple weapon being more effective in the hands of a fighter type.
 

coolAlias

Explorer
Personally, I kind of miss the weapon specialization rules from earlier editions for the sole fact that it helped differentiate one fighter from another.

I also miss certain weapons having bonuses to different techniques such as disarm, trip, etc., as well as the different crit ranges and all that.

I liked how each weapon could fulfill a niche, whereas in 5e, there don't seem to be many actual decision points with regard to weapon choice.
 

Yaarel

Explorer
Maybe more simply?

Unskilled = 1 damage
Trained = 1d4 damage
Simple = 1d6 damage
Martial = 1d8 damage
Superior = 1d10 damage
Deadly
... = 1d6 + 1d6 damage
... = 1d6 + 1d8 damage
... = 1d6 + 1d10 damage
... = 2d6 + 1d6
... = 2d6 + 1d8 damage
... = 2d6 + 1d10 damage
... = 3d6 + 1d6
... etcetera

So, these numbers are always true, depending on fighting skill.

From here on, there are several ways to go to handle weapons.
• The weapons dont matter, and are only for flavor, a martial artist can do as much damage with bare hands as with a sword.
• Weapons add their base damage to the fighting skill.
• Weapons have a maximum amount of damage. A dagger can only do max base damage 1d4, a longsword max base damage 1d8, and so on, depending on the fighting skill. So, someone unskilled could only deal 1 damage with a longsword. But also, a Martial expert could only do max base damage 1d4 with a dagger.
 

bedir than

Explorer
As I'm in the grouping of people who think that Fighters have to be the best at doing martial damage since they don't have the support for the other two tiers of play (exploration, social). I like this. And I'd grant every starting Fighter specialization in two "types" of weapon with an additional at each granting of Extra Attack.

Types of weapon being: Swords, Bows, Crossbows, Hammers/Clubs, Axes, Polearms, maybe others?

I want a fighter buff that centers around their weapon choices. This may be it. The old UA Weapon Feats might also be it (with each Fighter getting one at 1st level).
 

aco175

Explorer
I do not see any problems outright. I can see a dagger doing only 1d4 in the hands of the mage, 1d6 in the thief's hands and 1d8 in the fighter's. Maybe I am looking at it through the d8 rapier becoming only a d6 in the rogues hand and left at a d8 in the fighters. This may still be something for the Dex fighter to take, but the rogue either spends a feat or takes a level in fighter.
 

dnd4vr

Adventurer
You know, much of these types of changes can really be represented by a +1 for each level, after all for average damage anyway, d4 + 1 = d6 and d4 +2 = d8.

So, the wizard does d4, the rogue does d4+1 and the fighter does d4+2.

Sure, you don't have the same maximum potential, but neither do you have the same minimum. Instead of changing dice, maybe a bonus would more simply represent the same "effect" that is desired???
 

Coroc

Explorer
except throwing asymmetric small weapons is an art by itself. A light hammer is basically a tool, to do anymore damage with it than with a rock would require serious ninja skills.

The Franks had a throwing axe, the Francesca, but it's by no means a wood choppers axe or a handaxe, but had a very distinct form and is not very small.

Throwing an knife and make the tip point to the target on impact is hard enough, it still lacks in penetration capability due to its low mass and impulse.

You see, all those pretty simple weapons in fact should require some martial ability assigned to them when being used as a throwing weapon
 

Blue

Orcus on a bad hair day
Maybe more simply?

Unskilled = 1 damage
Trained = 1d4 damage
Simple = 1d6 damage
Martial = 1d8 damage
...
13th Age does something like this. Damage for weapons and AC for armor is based on your class. As it's just a few categories, not specific weapons so that the player can skin the weapon as whatever they want within a category. If I have a single-headed battle axe with a spike on the back and you have a jagged sword of obsidian and she has a spiked mace, we're all in the "one handed martial" category.

(And rogues make light weapons do d8, which no one else can.)
 

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