Homosexuality in the Forgotten Realms

[Mean Eyed Cat]

My own idea on this topic is that the studies that hint at homosexuality (in males at least) being related to an overabundance of testosterone in the womb, or even the homo's own body, are leading us towards the survivability enhancer. To wit, the prime characteristics of testosterone psychologically are that it increases sexual desire and aggressiveness. Add to this, the demonstrable fact that humans fight far more fiercely when defending things they love, and especially people they love.

Now, most studies I've read of mankind's primitive beginnings suggest that our ancestors were loosely organized in tribal bands, with males typically providing hunting and front-line fighting, and females providing gathered food and defense. There's no particular reason to suspect that either males or females were more inclined toward crafting of tools or leadership, aside from the tendency of most male primates to try to force themselves into leadership positions and bully everybody else into going along with them. Child-rearing would be done mostly by the females and any adolescent or elderly males too young or too old and infirm to hunt reasonably well.

If we accept that scenario of the dawn of human society, what use then would a homosexual male be? If he occurs as a result of more testosterone than his hetero clanmates, it would mean he's more aggressive than they are. This, in turn, would mean that when moved to fight, he would fight more fiercely. More interestingly, since a man would not typically hunt by himself, but rather with companions from the tribe, this primitive homosexual would spend much of his time near the healthiest, most virile and strong members of his clan- and would be placing himself in danger with them regularly. It is quite likely that he'd fall in love with one or more of them, at least on some level. This, in turn, means that he would fight more fiercely to defend them without even having other members of the tribe around. He would, in fact, fight more fiercely than a hetero man placed in the same situation. And in a life-or-death struggle, fierce fighting can often make the difference between life and death, as our friendly neighborhood D&D Barbarian teaches us. Finally, since combat is by nature dangerous and sometimes leads to deaths of clan members, we must look at the fact that if a straight man with one or more children was out hunting and got killed, this meant that the children would be down one parent and thus harmed by it. But if they lost their homosexual uncle, who had no children of his own, it would surely have a less traumatic effect in a social perspective.

So to state my idea, finally and clearly, I believe that homosexual males were "designed by evolution" (if you will pardon the obviously-unscientific phrase) to be a clan's supply of expendable, front-line combat troops. We were Nature's own military for the human species. If this explanation is correct, it makes the anti-gay stance of several modern military organizations around the world more than a little ironic! If nothing else, this idea has some potential for coming up with fantasy civilizations and scenarios.

Very interesting theory. However, how would you explain the role of berdache in most tribal societies? For those that don't know, berdaches are typically males of a tribal society who specialized in the work of women and formed emotional and sexual relationships with other men. They really didn't go out hunting with the other men. There are also female berdaches who took on men's work [such as hunting] and married other women--as seen among some Plains Indians tribes.

In many instances, these individuals would also fill a special spiritual role and, therefore, were often times valuable to the tribe. For example, among some California tribes, male berdaches were called upon to bury and mourn the dead, because such close contact with the spirit world was considered too dangerous for others.

I know this is taking the subject out of the genetic realm and placing it more in the sociological, but I'm curious how the role of berdaches would be explained from an evolutionary standpoint [if it can be explained at all]. Also, I'm interested because my background is in Cultural Anthropology.

And to tie the subject back into the Forgotten Realms, there are many tribal societies across the face of Faerun. We have the Uthgardt in the northwestern Silver Marches, the Nar in northeastern Faerun, the Shaaran of the southeastern grasslands, and the southwestern Chultan or "Tabaxi" which is a reference to the "one great tribe" that they feel they belong to. I know this is analogous to tribal societies of own world, but I feel that among the tribal societies of Faerun, homosexuality would probably be present and accepted.

 

[paradox42]

Very interesting theory. However, how would you explain the role of berdache in most tribal societies?

This is, admittedly, a large snag in my theory. I didn't mention it above, only because I wasn't sure how prevalent the phenomenon was- I was only aware of it existing among the native American tribes of the Great Plains and Pacific coastal regions (AFAIK, the actual word berdache comes from one of those tribes, though I forget which one exactly). If it was something that occurred among more tribal societies than just those, than we need more explanations.

Of course, we know that natural selection favors a trait becoming useful for more than one purpose, and most complex structures have evolved from earlier ones that were used very differently- an example being bird feathers, which evolved from dinosaur scales. Perhaps the berdache phenomenon is a similar "diversification" of male homosexuality. Certainly, it dovetails with the whole "nelly" stereotypical gay man better than my notion of hypermasculinized fighters.

For those that don't know, berdaches are typically males of a tribal society who specialized in the work of women and formed emotional and sexual relationships with other men. They really didn't go out hunting with the other men. There are also female berdaches who took on men's work [such as hunting] and married other women--as seen among some Plains Indians tribes.

An excellent portrayal of this exists in the movie Little Big Man, one of Dustin Hoffman's lesser-known works. One of the members of the tribe his character is part of is a berdache, and I think they may even have used the term in the movie. It was mostly played for laughs, but taken in its own right the portrayal seems fairly good to me.

In many instances, these individuals would also fill a special spiritual role and, therefore, were often times valuable to the tribe. For example, among some California tribes, male berdaches were called upon to bury and mourn the dead, because such close contact with the spirit world was considered too dangerous for others.

Here I think we have a good cultural explanation- the fact is, the recently-advanced suggestions that male homosexuality arises due to an overabundance of testosterone say that what the testosterone does is cause the body to react against it in a backlash, upping estrogen and other female hormones and in the process "feminizing" certain brain structures. Now, most societies have traditionally associated magic and mysticism with females more than with males; this trend is so prevalent across multiple cultural lines that it would be difficult to explain away by invoking traditions of patriarchal societies alone.

What if this association of spiritual practice with females is due to certain brain structures which arise far more often in women than in men? If this is the case, then it stands to reason that a male with a "feminized" brain would be more likely to develop these "spiritual structures" than an average male would be. Thus, a clearly "feminine-acting" male as most berdaches traditionally were would be seen by the tribe as a sort of bridge between the female and the male. He'd be a sort of Kwizatz Haderach, to compare with a certain well-known science fiction tale. Being feminine in behavior, his spiritual qualities would be obvious, in these associations- but being male, he would naturally be more impulsive and aggressive than a female would be expected to be, so his pattern of spiritual activity would be different from those of the mystic women in the tribe. Thus, he'd be tapped to fill unique spiritual roles that, literally, nobody else in the tribe would be capable of doing.

And to tie the subject back into the Forgotten Realms, there are many tribal societies across the face of Faerun. We have the Uthgardt in the northwestern Silver Marches, the Nar in northeastern Faerun, the Shaaran of the southeastern grasslands, and the southwestern Chultan or "Tabaxi" which is a reference to the "one great tribe" that they feel they belong to. I know this is analogous to tribal societies of own world, but I feel that among the tribal societies of Faerun, homosexuality would probably be present and accepted.

It would be surprising if they did not feature berdaches, that much is certainly true! At least, it would be surprising in any campaign run by a DM who is aware of the real-world history of such cultures.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

For another, I see no reason why wars with other races couldn't keep the population down. It really doesn't take that much to keep the elven population in check, and the orcs could afford to smash a whole generation of young men against elven defenses to get a few elves and the associated glory.

Which then just begs the question: Why haven't Orcs (or any other fecund race) simply wiped Elves out?

1) According to published materials, Elves have no tech that Orcs don't, and based on racial stat adjustments, are only slightly better spellcasters than Orcs are.

2) If there aren't enough Orcs for the job, they could ally with/hire some of the tribes of Goblinkind to boost their numbers.

3) Both races have a tendency towards Chaos, so there is no real tactical advantage for either race based on their ability to draw up plans and follow them.

So, why not just simply overwhelm the Elves?

Answer: there is clearly something else going on.

 

[Mean Eyed Cat]

This is, admittedly, a large snag in my theory. I didn't mention it above, only because I wasn't sure how prevalent the phenomenon was- I was only aware of it existing among the native American tribes of the Great Plains and Pacific coastal regions (AFAIK, the actual word berdache comes from one of those tribes, though I forget which one exactly). If it was something that occurred among more tribal societies than just those, than we need more explanations.

Actually, I appeared to have used the archaic term berdache which is still being thrown around amongst anthropologists. It came from the French, a loan word from an Arabic word for "male prostitute". Early French trappers and explorers used the word when they encountered homosexual men within Indian tribes. It appears to have first been used with the Illinois tribe. Among Native Americans, they like the term "Two Spirits" better - implying a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit living in the same body.

As for its prevalence among other cultures, a broader term might be "third gender" -- a category present in those societies who recognize three or more genders. For example, there are the Hijra in India, the Muxe among Mexico's Zapotec peoples, the Mangaiko among the Mbo of Africa, and possibly the eunuchs of the Ancient Eastern Mediterranean world.

And than we have a whole different tribal phenomena amongst the Keraki and Sambia of Papua New Guinea. Young men would enter into a homosexual relationship with an unmarried male warrior as part of their rites of passage into manhood. Sometimes this rite could last for years. Once completed, they ceased all homosexual contact and assumed sexual desires for women.

Here I think we have a good cultural explanation- the fact is, the recently-advanced suggestions that male homosexuality arises due to an overabundance of testosterone say that what the testosterone does is cause the body to react against it in a backlash, upping estrogen and other female hormones and in the process "feminizing" certain brain structures. Now, most societies have traditionally associated magic and mysticism with females more than with males; this trend is so prevalent across multiple cultural lines that it would be difficult to explain away by invoking traditions of patriarchal societies alone.

What if this association of spiritual practice with females is due to certain brain structures which arise far more often in women than in men? If this is the case, then it stands to reason that a male with a "feminized" brain would be more likely to develop these "spiritual structures" than an average male would be. Thus, a clearly "feminine-acting" male as most berdaches traditionally were would be seen by the tribe as a sort of bridge between the female and the male. He'd be a sort of Kwizatz Haderach, to compare with a certain well-known science fiction tale. Being feminine in behavior, his spiritual qualities would be obvious, in these associations- but being male, he would naturally be more impulsive and aggressive than a female would be expected to be, so his pattern of spiritual activity would be different from those of the mystic women in the tribe. Thus, he'd be tapped to fill unique spiritual roles that, literally, nobody else in the tribe would be capable of doing.

Again, a very interesting theory. I don't know much about the biological perspective. However, while these biological factors might come into play, from an anthropological perspective, I also believe there is probably some cultural [environmental] conditioning. Most of that depends on how much the culture defines the role and what it considers acceptable [as demonstrated by those examples I listed above].

And I agree that most societies have traditionally associated magic and mysticism with females more than with males. Again, from an anthropological viewpoint, shamanism as it is [or was] practiced throughout the world tends to have more women than men.

 

[green slime]

R.I.P. Angelsboi.

 

[The Grumpy Celt]

Two hot chicks getting it on is not an example of open mindedness and tolerance within the FRCS...

I agree. Everyone points to the female homosexuals but skips past males. The lesbians make the setting salacious, not progressive or even particularly transgressive. For it to be progressive it needs a homosexual character who is not swishy.

R.I.P. Angelsboi.

Amen.

 

[Samnell]

And than we have a whole different tribal phenomena amongst the Keraki and Sambia of Papua New Guinea. Young men would enter into a homosexual relationship with an unmarried male warrior as part of their rites of passage into manhood. Sometimes this rite could last for years. Once completed, they ceased all homosexual contact and assumed sexual desires for women.

Or until they had someone to mentor themselves. Something similar happened in pre-modern Japan and ancient Greece.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Which is one of the things I was hinting at with elvish society.