Honestly, how often have you used gnomes?

[the Jester]

I agree with WotC's choice to remove the gnome, largely because it didn't have any place in the fantasy world. There was nothing you could identify a gnome with, nothing that made them stand out as a new race. They felt, to a lot of people, like clumsy halflings that had useless spellike abilities. So please tell me whether you even actually used them in a major way, be it through a character (as a player) or as a society (as a DM). I've used gnome NPCs before, but literally only because it felt like gnomes didn't exist in my world, since they were unused.

Feel free to disagree with my assessment.

Discuss.

Used 'em tons. Many pc gnomes have run through my world; likewise, I've played gnomes aplenty as a player. I have several areas in my campaign world that are very gnomocentric, and even one area where a major plot thread is the existence of a 'gnome tax'.

 

[TwinBahamut]

The real issue isn't whether you use gnomes in your campaign or not. Everyone's opinion and use cases are going to vary widely. The real issue is do you want someone else to make this decision for you or would you rather be making the decision of what races to include or exclude yourself? The same goes for classes or any other component of the game for that matter.

Well, it is a complete moot point concerning whether we get to pick what is in the PHB or whether WotC does. Unless WotC is willing to create every race anyone could possibly ask for, and create custom-made PHBs for every campaign, then the only viable option is having WotC pick a set of races that pleases the largest number of people.

To address the rest of the discussion...

I don't think that the fact gnomes were used as a PHB race in earlier editions is a good justification for their inclusion in 4E. The only race that must be in the core rules is the Human. Everything other race should earn its way into the PHB by virtue of popularity and viability. The gnome can be an interesting race, this thread shows that, but it only earns its place as a Monster Manual race or Splatbook race, not a PHB race.

Certainly, no matter whether I like the gnome itself or not (I lean against it, but I don't hate it like I do the Drow or Gith), there are so many things I would prefer over it that I don't think it really qualifies to be in the PHB.

 

[endlessruin]

Gnomes???

I have never had a pc want to play a gnome character. I have tried to coax players into playing gnomes for fun. I tried to convince someone to play a gnomeatauroclops with a strain of fairy blood (gnome+minotuar+cyclops with little fairy wings) but, that was a complete joke and my only desire was to convince a new member of my group to play the character so I could watch the rest of the group ROTFLMAO.

I have included gnomes in my game a few times but, I haven't had a lot of success. I had a gnome npc that was a fighter with a hero complex which became a hilarious story element because the pcs always thought he was going to steal their glory. That worked well because of the way I ran the character not because he was a gnome.

I don't have any problem with them removing the gnome as a player class. If a player really wants to be a gnome their dm could easily work that out. I don't find gnomes as interesting or fun to play as other classes.

 

[AWizardInDallas]

virtue of popularity

Someone asked me about popularity being a criteria. Here you go.

 

[overelemental]

humans > halfelves > elves > gnomes > halflings > dwarves > halforcs is the ratio of the various phb races in my campaigns I guess. Gnomes had more character than halflings or dwarves, but I don't mind to see them go as a player race. They're better as NPCs really.

 

[Xethreau]

I find 3.5 gnomes to be an awkward combination of what gnomes are in mythology, and hobbits (yes, I know those are halfings.) I just assume gnomes be little forrest dwellers who live underground and like to help forrest animals and like to trick trolls. The 3.5 statistics for gnomes made sense this way, but how in the world gnomes became tinkers, I have no clue, and besides being insanely funny, I don't really care for it. I would never ban gnomes, but I think it is a healthy choice for them move to the MM.

 

[KrazyHades]

I disagree. I think gnomes are great.

Btw, I'm glad you gave me permission to disagree with you. I wasn't going to dare have a subjective opinion that was different from yours until I saw that it was OK. Is it all right if I have other subjective opinions that disagree with yours in the future? Should I send you a PM to get permission every time or can you give me a framework that helps me to know when it is and is not allowed? Thanx.

Helim3, I knew what it sounded like when I stated it, but it was my way of showing that I acknowledge that my beliefs shouldn't prevent people from strongly disagreeing. Obviously you have your own subjective opinion too, but I didn't want to act like it didn't matter to me.

 

[helium3]

But that's what I'm curious about. I'm highly skeptical of any such "market research" on gnomes even existing, much less being accurate in any meaningful way.

If said market research had been done as extensively as the gnome-haters in this thread seem to be behaving, wouldn't a fairly significant fraction of people on this message board be able to say something like "Two years ago I got this weird email asking me to tell WotC which race I would most like to see dropped from the PHB and which I'd most like to add."

 

[helium3]

Helim3, I knew what it sounded like when I stated it, but it was my way of showing that I acknowledge that my beliefs shouldn't prevent people from strongly disagreeing. Obviously you have your own subjective opinion too, but I didn't want to act like it didn't matter to me.

It's cool. I was feeling a wee bit cranky when I read your post.

Honestly, I've gotten pretty tired of the number of posts I've been running into on ENWorld lately that effectively boil down to

This is my opinion. It is true. You should think it's true too. If you don't, there's something wrong with you. Feel free to disagree with me. You will still be wrong. *fakefriendlyemoticon* kthxbye!!

*shrug*

Maybe I should stop reading these forums.

 

[Aldarc]

I have never played a gnome. I have never seen a gnome played. I have rarely seen a gnome NPC.