D&D 4E Hopefully D&D 4E will give us feats every level . . .

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

I don't think it would be a good idea to give feats every level ON TOP OF class abilities.

But I do think that d20 modern (and grim tales) has a good model: get a feat or class ability every level.

And one of the nice things about eliminating the 'dead' levels is that players may not feel they need to level so quickly. Giving them a little choice in character development each level is a good thing.

 

[Ranger REG]

Ever notice how many feats are really tricks or knacks anybody can pick up inside of five minutes?

Then replace "feats" with "tricks" or "knacks."

 

[philreed]

And one of the nice things about eliminating the 'dead' levels is that players may not feel they need to level so quickly. Giving them a little choice in character development each level is a good thing.

Agreed. Hopefully 4e won't have any dead levels at all -- especially in prestige classes (if there even are prestige classes).

 

[Orryn Emrys]

I don't think it would be a good idea to give feats every level ON TOP OF class abilities.

But I do think that d20 modern (and grim tales) has a good model: get a feat or class ability every level.

Additionally, one could easily build feat-like "talent chains" that work well with D&D archetypes, i.e. a swordsman chain that included weapon focus, specialization, cleave or whatever else seemed to make sense, creating a controlled direction of development every other level and still leaving the character plenty of diversity from among their actual "feat" selections. This would preclude construction of super-versatile characters, while continuing to allow a broad sense of development with a plethora of options, particularly for characters sculpted via multiclassing options. I haven't seen the GT build, but the D20 MODERN hero classes are probably a little too generalized for D&D... but it would be easy to emulate their structure and include a more swords-and-sorcery flavored selection of base classes.

Of course, you could further channel the development of the PC's by replacing some of the feats with "talents", thus allowing a character who wished to excel in a particular field to level appropriately. This is another function of D20 MODERN that I find interesting, although it primarily uses talents to emulate familiar class abilities from D&D, such as the Fast Hero's evasion talent. Some fantasy styles of gameplay would undoubtedly handle this better than others.

And I, too, am curious about how Iron Lore is going to be look in regards to class construction.

 

[mythusmage]

Then replace "feats" with "tricks" or "knacks."

Exactly!

 

[Pbartender]

Copyright 2005 by SteveC. All rights reserved.

My idea was 1 Feat/Level, in addition to all the Feats the various classes receive now, but the extra feats were from a list which was different for each and every class... Most all class abilities would be feats, but not every class could get them as part of their list. Many/most would still have pre-requisites. All classes would get Skill Focus: (Any Class Skill), as well as any of the +2/+2 feats that fit their capabilities (Deft Hands for Rogues, Alertness for Druids and Rangers, etc.)

[SNIP!]

Well, there's my $1.20 on it...

That's almost exactly how T20 Traveller works... Instead of class abilities, all classes get a bonus feat every level that you don't get a character feat. The bonus feat lists include special feats that are exclusive to that class.

Traveller T20 Lite

 

[woodelf]

"You want to learn how to choke up on a pole arm. Here's how you choke up on a pole arm. The standard way you gain power but lose control (full damage, -2 to hit). Choking up you gain control but lose power (damage one die smaller, no modifier to hit)."

Ever notice how many feats are really tricks or knacks anybody can pick up inside of five minutes?

IF you go that route then each character has 30 pages of options they can do but will never rember becasue there are two many. What they need is many of them combined together to make feats that area little more powerful and versatile so people might actually take them.

Not necessarily. You just generalize. Make a general rule, something like "you can trade off 3 pts of any combat statistic for 2 of another, or 5 for 3", and let it apply to AC, BAB, damage, maybe some other things. That subsumes and replaces Combat Expertise, Power Attack, fighting defensively, and several other feats and combat maneuvers. Similarly, trip, disarm, sunder, and a whole bunch of other combat maneuvers, and their related feats, are *almost* the same mechanics, and could be replaced by a single, generalized mechanic. It would be pretty easy to (1) give players more options in combat, (2) eliminate a bunch of feats, and (3) simplify the D&D3E combat rules, all at once.

 

[Ranger REG]

Exactly!

But why are you so against the word "feats"?

 

[Ds Da Man]

If you have the slightest amount of combat training (i.e. BAB +1), you can draw a weapon while moving - but not when taking just any move action, only while actually moving. So you can move up to someone while drawing a weapon, and then smack them.

Kinda makes Quick Draw useless then? I thought if you had combat training (i.e. BAB +1), it allowed you to draw a weapon without provoking an AoO. It still counts as a MEA, and Quick Draw turns that into FA.
Either way, drawing a weapon for melee should be a free action for all fighter types, maybe even rogues.
I do like feats, but they get kinda ridiculous. There are already so many feats its impossible to know them all.
(One other feat that I don't get is Improved Toughness. Shouldn't this have to have Toughness as a prerequisite?)

 

[Pbartender]

Kinda makes Quick Draw useless then?

No it doesn't, because without Quick Draw, you still cannot draw a weapon and make a full attack in a single round. It also allows you to make a full attack with thrown weapons. Plus, it allows you to drop one weapon (like a longspear) and draw a second weapon (like a longbow or a longsword) in the midst of a full round action. Lastly, it allows to you to draw a concealed (hidden) weapon as a move equivalent action, instead of a standard action.

Quick Draw is a very useful feat, especially for Rogues with high Sneak Attack bonuses.