Hordes of the Abyss: Q&A

[BogusMagus]

Huh? Is that instead of the 1-every-4-HD increase, or as well?


glass.

As well.

Making Epic Demon Lords
(I don’t feel like writing out these words for words, but I will try not to leave out anything.)
* Advance lord’s HD by an amount appropriate for your campaign’s needs. The lord’s BAB, saves, skills, feats, ability scores, should increase as an Outsider.
* CR increase by 1 for every HD added.
* Add “epic” to DR requirement.
* New SR = CR+13
* Ability scores all increase 2 for every 5HD added (in addition to increase due to HD).
* Gain Spell-like abilities (at will): Blasphemy (or Word of Chaos for obyrith.), Plane Shift, Shapechange, Unholy Aura. Feel free to add more, but remember not to over do it.

 

[Nightfall]

Kadum was indeed an SL titan but the difference between a Titan and a demon prince is kind of considerable in my view.

 

[Ripzerai]

I really like the description of the Plain of Infinite Portals, with two caveats:

1. Making it finite was nothing short of idiotic. I can understand some minor layers having limited expanses, but the first one? There's no way to justify making Pazunia finite without making every outer plane's first layer be similarly bounded.

2. I don't like that they gave the layer to Pazuzu. He didn't have it in the 1st edition Manual of the Planes (though he spent a lot of time there), in Planes of Chaos, or even in his Demonomicon article. Granted, he doesn't interfere with the squabbling lords and armies of the layer, but there's something fundamentally wrong about putting the gateway layer under the control of any one ruler, especially given that the article itself says, "to control Pazunia is to control the whole of the Abyss." It's a huge advantage against his rivals, and he already has Torremor.

If they dropped the bit about him controlling all Abyssal skies, though (which seemed a bit excessive), I can deal with it.

I did like that they named him an obyrith, though, in homage to Gygax calling him a "proto-demon." And making him one of the few remaining lords of that earlier race, which used to control the layer, makes things make a little more sense.

Anyway, the rest of the article is superb, and as always I reserve the right to construct mountains from any molehills I might come across.

 

[Nightfall]

Rip,

My only mole hill in terms of artwork was the pic of Yeenough. Otherwise the articles = fine.

I await my copy soon.

 

[ruleslawyer]

It's a huge advantage against his rivals, and he already has Torremor.

He might not have Torremor any more... which makes a kind of sense, since in 1e he didn't have an identifiable home layer at all.

If they dropped the bit about him controlling all Abyssal skies, though (which seemed a bit excessive), I can deal with it.

I have a feeling they did.

 

[BogusMagus]

I added “the notes” to the list.

This list is the whole appendix. (At least my intension is. I might have omitted something by mistake.)

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I like this Obyrith business. I was especially surprised that Pazuzu was now made(?) Obyrith.

***********************************************************

FC1? / Known demon lords
yes ( ) / Abraxas: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Adimarchus: Demon prince of madness. Antagonist of the Shackled City Adventure Path modules published in Dungeon. Detailed in Dungeon #116, page 61.
yes ( ) / Ahazu: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Ahrimanes: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( f ) / Aldinach: Female demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( f ) / Alrunes: Female demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Alvarez: Demon lord. Mentioned in Faces of Evil: the Fiends, p60.
yes ( ) / Alzrius: Demon lord. Mentioned in Hellbound: The Blood War, "The Dark of the War", p25.
yes ( ) / Anarazel: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Ansitif: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( f ) / Ardat: Female demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35, revealed to be Demon Queen of Harpies in Dragon #341 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page X.
yes ( o ) / Areex: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
no ( ) / Arlgolcheir: Demon lord. Mentioned in Dragon #116 "Rogue Stones and Gemjumping", page 55; said to have been destroyed.
yes ( ) / Arzial: Mentioned in Dungeon #13, "The Ruins of Nol-Daer".
yes ( ) / Aseroth: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( o,d ) / Asima: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( d ) / Astaroth: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( d ) / Azael: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Azazel: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Baltazo: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Baphomet: Demon lord. Mentioned in Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth; Monster Manual II (1983), page 36; Dragon #341 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv".
yes ( f ) / Barbu: Female demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Bayemon: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( o ) / Bechard: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( o ) / Cabiri: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Charun: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( o ) / Dagon: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Demogorgon: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual (1977) p16; Wrath of the Immortals boxed set; Monster Mythology, page 88; Book of Vile Darkness, page 125.
no ( ) / Doresain, King of Ghouls: Demigod. Libris Mortis p 16
yes ( ) / Dwiergus: The Chrysalis Prince, mentioned in Dragon #341 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv".
yes ( ) / Eblis: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Eldanoth: Demon lord. Mentioned in Faces of Evil: the Fiends, page 60.
yes ( ) / Eltab: Mentioned in Dreams of the Red Wizards; Spellbound; Champions of Ruin, page 130.
no ( ) / Ereshkigal: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Fraz-Urb'luu: Demon prince. Mentioned in Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth; Monster Manual II (1983), page 39; Faces of Evil: the Fiends, page 60; Dragon #333 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 21.
yes ( ) / Graz'zt: Demon prince. Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth; Monster Manual II (1983), page 39; Book of Vile Darkness, page 130.
yes ( ) / Gresil: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35; Living Greyhawk Journal 10; Dragon #294.
yes ( ) / Haagenti: Lord of Alchemy. Mentioned in Dragon #337 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 47.
yes ( ) / Ilsidahur: Mentioned in Dungeon #10 "The Shrine of Ilsidahur".
yes ( ) / Juiblex: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual (1977), page 17; Monster Mythology, page 67; Book of Vile Darkness, page 134; Dragon #337 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 47.
yes ( f ) / J'zzalshrak: Female demon lord. Mentioned in Dungeon #64, "Bzallin's Blacksphere", page 29.
new? ( ) / Kardum
yes ( ) / Kerzit: Demon lord. Mentioned in Mordenkainen's Fantastic Adventure; Dungeon #112, pages 13, 52, 96.
yes ( ) / Kostchtchie: Demon lord. Mentioned in Lost Caverns of Tsojcanth; Monster Manual II (1983), page 40; Monster Mythology, page 82.
yes ( f ) / Lamashtu: Demon Queen of Monstrous Births and Deformity. Mentioned in Dragon #329 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 67.
yes ( ) / Laraie: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Lazbral'thull: Demon lord of torture and bloodletting. (Dungeon #122: Root of Evil).
no ( ) / Lindyrm: Mentioned in The Deva Spark.
yes ( f ) / Lissa'aere: Female demon lord. Mentioned in Hellbound: The Blood War, page 25.
yes ( f ) / Lolth: Demon queen of spiders. First debut in module D3: Vault of the Drow and more prominently, in Q1: Queen of the Demonweb Pits. Went on to appear in many other supplements such as first edition Fiend Folio and Deities and Demigods (all three editions).
yes ( ) / Lupercio: Demon lord. Mentioned in Faces of Evil: the Fiends, page 60.
yes ( f ) / Lynkhab: Female demon lord. Faces of Evil: the Fiends, page 61.
no ( ) / Maelfesh: featured in Rose Estes' Greyhawk novels.
yes* ( ) / Malcanthet: The mother of succubi. Mentioned in Dungeon #112, page 48, and #124, page 95.
yes ( ) / Malgarius: A demonic plant that once controlled a layer of the Abyss, but which was defeated by the demon lord Lazbral'thull. (Dungeon #122: Root of Evil).
no ( ) / Malgoth, The: A "terrible entity" that ruled over several layers of the Abyss eons ago. Defeated by a consortium of seven demon lords, who led a fantastic assault on his haunted realm. The victorious demons scattered the Malgoth's essence across the Abyss, only to be deposed and ultimately destroyed by underlings on their home layers. (Dungeon #117: Touch of the Abyss).
yes ( ) / Mastiphal: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
no ( ) / Miska the Wolf-Spider: Demon prince. Mentioned in Dungeon #124, page 17. Detailed in 2e adventure Rod of Seven Parts.
yes ( ) / Munkir: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Nekir: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
no ( ) / Nergel: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( f ) / Nocticula: Demon princess. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
no ( ) / Nql: mentioned in Eldritch Wizardry, in the "Codex of the Infinite Planes" entry.
yes ( o ) / Obox-ob: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Orcus: Demon prince. Mentioned in Eldritch Wizardry; Monster Manual (1977), page 17; Dead Gods; Dungeon #89; Book of Vile Darkness, page 136. Was the prominent villain of the Bloodstone series.
yes ( o ) / Pale Night: Female demon lord, mother of Grazzt, Lupercio, and Vucarik. Consort of Baphomet. Mentioned in Faces of Evil: the Fiends, page 61; Dragon #341 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv"; Manual of the Planes (3rd edition), page 100.
yes ( o ) / Pazuzu: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 41; Dragon #329 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 56; Book of Vile Darkness web enhancement.
yes ( ) / Rhyxali: Demon princess. Mentioned in Book of Vile Darkness web enhancement.
yes ( ) / Sch'theraqpasstt: Mentioned in Dragon #151
yes ( ) / Sess'innek: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Mythology, page 102; Serpent Kingdoms.
yes ( ) / Shaktari: Marilith demon lord. Mentioned in Dungeon #60, "Nemesis", page 32.
yes ( ) / Shami-Amourae: Queen of succubi. Mentioned in Dungeon #5, "The Stolen Power", page 27.
yes ( ) / Siragle: Mentioned in Dungeon #28, "Sleepless".
yes ( ) / Socothbenoth: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35; mentioned in Dragon #333,"Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 29.
yes ( f ) / Soneillon: Female demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35.
yes ( ) / Tharzax: Patron of poisonous things that creep and crawl. (Dungeon #123: Salvage Operation).
yes ( ) / Thralhavoc: Demon lord. Mentioned in Hellbound: The Blood War, "War Games", page 56.
yes ( ) / Turaglas the Ebon Maw: Mentioned in Dragon #312.
yes ( o ) / Ugudenk: Lord of Worms and Hungry Parasites. Mentioned in Dragon #333 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 39.
yes ( ) / Verin: Demon lord. Mentioned in Monster Manual II (1983), page 35; Faces of Evil: the Fiends, page 62.
yes ( ) / Volisupula: Mentioned in Planes of Chaos, in the "Chaos Adventures" booklet.
yes ( ) / Vucarik: Demon lord. Mentioned in Hellbound: The Blood War, page 26.
no ( ) / Xazivort: Mentioned in From the Ashes.
yes ( ) / Yeenoghu: Demon prince. Mentioned in Monster Manual (1977), page 19; Monster Mythology, page 83; Book of Vile Darkness, page 140.
yes ( f ) / Yibyiru: Female demon lord; Rancid Lady of Bitter Bile. Mentioned in Dragon #337 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 48.
no ( ) / Zanassu: Mentioned in Empires of the Sands, reported dead in Demihuman Deities.
yes ( f ) / Zuggtmoy: Demoness Lady of Fungi. Mentioned in Temple of Elemental Evil; Dragon #337 "Demonomicon of Iggwilv", page 37.
yes ( ) / Zzyczesiya: Demon lord. Mentioned in Faces of Evil: the Fiends, page 60.

*Not in the Appendix, by mistake. (d=presumed dead, f=female, o=obyrith.)

 

[BogusMagus]

As Kesh pointed out, he does indeed get a mention in Yeenoghu's entry (and his layer has an official name now: the White Kingdom). I'm guessing he's not on the list because he's not a demon.

I just noticed that Appendix 1 does not have Doresain in it, but Appendix 2 (Layers of the Abyss) does.
421/The White Kingdom/Doresain

Now that I look at the Appendix 2 more closely, I see that there are Deities listed on this list, if they are the rulers of the layer.

It's a shame that they couldn't think of a better name for Yeenoghu's layer than "Yeenoghu's Realm," though, especially considering that On Hallowed Ground gave it a beautiful and vivid name - the Seeping Woods (OHG, page 49).

The Seeping Woods is the name of an area in Y's Realm.

 

[Ripzerai]

He might not have Torremor any more...

That seems unlikely, considering how much detail Mr. Jacobs gave it in the Demonomicon. I suspect he would have protested if someone suggested symbolically throwing all that effort away.

 

[BogusMagus]

it's not too hard to read. was there another part of the list for destroyed demon lords, or are you just saying they were not listed in the appendix at all?

See my updated list.
But I *think* the Appendix 1 only lists those destroyed (relatively) recently.

Then again, since there is at least one entry missing from the list, maybe there are some more missing by mistake.

so, we have at least one new lord named Kardum? did the appendix list any more lords who were not on that wiki list?

No (unless I missed some by mistake).

Kardum / Lord of the Balors / Balor, Fire / 21: The Sixth Pyre

 

[BogusMagus]

yep, Zugg's appearance was retooled using the image from the ToEE PC game. at first i was like, "what? she's supposed to be butt-ugly mo-fugly!" but then, well, the new look kind of grew on me. like a fungus.

I see.
Thanks, BOZ!