Hordes of the Abyss.

[BOZ]

why you throw chip? go back and re-read some of my posts. in no way am i happy about the CR change. my panties are just not in a bunch over it.

(they're fitting very snugly, thank you very much).

 

[Piratecat]

Time to stop the bickering, folks. Yes, even if you have a really clever retort lined up, and even if you feel like the aggrieved party. We'd like the thread to stay on topic, without the arguments.

Although gamers often feel strongly about their demon lords, it's an easy topic to discuss without taking personal offense. So please don't -- and don't try to argue with anyone that does.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Personally, I can't wait to see the CR 19-22 stat blocks for the demon lords. Now, I agree that in any campaign I run, the demon lords are going to be advanced. I won't use the stat blocks as written.

For them.

But damned if they won't make for some excellent demon adversaries in their own right. A name change, a slight tweak in description, and bingo. Got a brand new baddie for most campaigns, and the option to advance them if I ever have the need to use a "real" demon lord.

(Plus, of course, there's always the aspect/avatar option, which I can also see myself using pretty frequently. But that's already been covered.)

 

[Ripzerai]

Sigh. Fine.

 

[Piratecat]

Boz, Rip, see my warning above. You have five minutes to edit and/or remove your posts.

EDIT: thank you, both of you.

Back to the thread!

 

[Sammael]

Well, the designers aren't going to talk about the book anymore until its street date, Joe seems to have lost interest, and you just enforced self-censorship (which is a sure sign that most people aren't going to bother with the conversation anymore)... you might as well lock it now.

 

[Baron Opal]

Nevermind...

 

[MerricB]

Personally, I can't wait to see the CR 19-22 stat blocks for the demon lords. Now, I agree that in any campaign I run, the demon lords are going to be advanced. I won't use the stat blocks as written.

For them.

But damned if they won't make for some excellent demon adversaries in their own right. A name change, a slight tweak in description, and bingo. Got a brand new baddie for most campaigns, and the option to advance them if I ever have the need to use a "real" demon lord.

(Plus, of course, there's always the aspect/avatar option, which I can also see myself using pretty frequently. But that's already been covered.)

My campaigns still cleave somewhat to the old 1e view of advancement: anything over 12th is very high. Indeed, in the 6 years I've been DMing 3e, 15th level is the highest anyone has achieved, although I hope to break that in both my homebrew Ulek campaign and in the AoW campaign.

For such campaigns, CR "around 20" is great for demon lords. It satisfies my view of where they should be. But, I'll happily advance them if its required.

Cheers!

 

[Shemeska]

This has gone in an interesting cycle I'll admit.

We start with a flurry of kneejerk dislike, then move to a bunch of more detailed complaints/constructive criticism, and now we come to the period of nerd fights between various factions of complainers and butt kissing apologists.

I'll give praise and do my own fair share of kissing ass, but I won't do so for things I can't honestly see much valid rationale for and which I seriously find a slew of flaws within at multiple levels of its conception. When I have the book and I'm having multiple fiendgasms over the fluff, the plot hooks, the details of various layers, believe me I'll give praise when praise is due. Christ, give it time and you'll see me go giddy over the stuff in the majority of the book I'm sure.

But in the meantime, when the majority of what we have to chew on, as Rip made a nice analogy with, are CRs of archfiends that make the BoVD stats look like an improvement, of course I'll complain on topics that I feel warrant such criticism.

 

[Nightfall]

Or if you're like me, wait and see what the art is like and if it sucks, I'll say so.