Horrid Wilting

[Oryan77]

Fire evaporates water (and moisture from the air). A fire element can't have properties from other elements (water or gas) because it would no longer be a pure "FIRE" elemental. It would be part fire & part water. Water can't exist in the El. Plane of Fire because it would evaporate. It can't exist in a Fire Elemental either because it would evaporate.

That doesn't mean some elemental properties don't exist in the inner planes. There are Earth chunks in all the inner planes. The Fire Plane just hardens those chucks. There's pockets of air in the Fire Plane because fire needs air to exist.

 

[Oryan77]

"Elemental Type: An elemental is a being composed of one of the four classical elements: air, earth, fire, or water."


Bold mine. So elementals are living creatures, and might have some fluid like substance keeping them together on some level.

Remember, Elementals are PURE elements. Look at the SRD quote. "one" of four elements. A fire elemental can't have "moisture" because moisture is a water element. A Fire Elemental is just a mass of flames that resemble a humanoid shaped form.

When the SRD mentions "soul & body" it isn't referring to a physical fleshy "moist" body. It just refers to the element that resembles a body. When it is slain, it can't be resurrected because there is no physical body to raise and no soul attached to a body. You can sorta think of it like animating an object. Rock & dirt is animated for an Earth Elemental, when it's slain, the rock & dirt just fall back to the ground into a pile. Fire is animated for a Fire Elemental, when it's slain, it flickers out as if you blew out a candle. That's always been my interpretation of elementals.

 

[Bad Paper]

There are Earth chunks in all the inner planes. The Fire Plane just hardens those chucks. There's pockets of air in the Fire Plane because fire needs air to exist.

Actually the EPoF liquefies the earth chunks into lava. The pockets of air do not feed the fire there; they just exist for the convenience of travellers.

Fire survives here without need for fuel or air to burn.

 

[Oryan77]

Actually the EPoF liquefies the earth chunks into lava. The pockets of air do not feed the fire there; they just exist for the convenience of travellers.

Yeah, there is lava in the El Plane of Fire, but there are also chunks of hardened earth. There are plenty of Citadels and cities that sit upon hardened earth chunks that protrude from the flames. Check out the 2e module "Eternal Boundary" for pictures of a Citadel built onto an earth chunk in the El. Plane of Fire.

As for air feeding fire...fire cannot exist without air. I guess you can say it's "magical" fire...but scientifically, you can't start a fire without air fueling it. Native elementals don't need to breath, so I don't concider pockets of air existing for the convenience of travellers. Flavor wise, it sounds better explaining that air pockets end up in the plane which is what allows the flame to burn eternally.

 

[Cheiromancer]

For "fire" you might read "plasma". The sun and stars are examples of fire/plasma that don't need oxygen.

 

[ThirdWizard]

I would have the fire elemental be affected because I don't want to fill a house rules tome with corner case rulings that are likely to come up once or twice. Also, I don't change the rules mid-game, so all in all, fire elemental is affected by Horrid Wilting.

 

[Chorn]

As for air feeding fire...fire cannot exist without air. I guess you can say it's "magical" fire...but scientifically, you can't start a fire without air fueling it.

I find it odd that you say fire requires air in the D&D world when earlier you said the following:

Remember, Elementals are PURE elements. Look at the SRD quote. "one" of four elements. A fire elemental can't have "moisture" because moisture is a water element.

Air is one of the four classical elements and is represented in D&D as one of the four basic elemental planes. Elemental Fire does not and should not require Air because it's elemental Fire. As you said, moisture cannot exist inside the Plane of Fire because it's part of Water. So why would Air be any different? Furthermore, there's this quote from the Planes subsection of the SRD.

Fire survives here without need for fuel or air. . .

Being one of _the_ elements, it's a basic building block of creation. Don't bring your so called Real World "science" into it!

 

[Scion]

Fire evaporates water

Moisture != Water. There goes that whole arguement

As I said earlier, there is no reason to assume there isnt some sort of moisture that keeps it going somehow. Such as some sort of odd napalm like fluid for whatever reason.

I see no reason at all for this to be 'definately no'. One can argue that it makes sense for it to be no, just like one can argue it makes sense for it to be yes.

I'd allow it to work in my games. They are living beings and there is no reason to assume that they have nothing enough like moisture to not be effected.

Even failing that though, I'd allow it to work the first time if I didnt tell the players in advance it wouldnt.

 

[Oryan77]

Being one of _the_ elements, it's a basic building block of creation. Don't bring your so called Real World "science" into it!

If you're going to quote what I say to debate it, then also quote and respond to the comments where I'm possibly agreeing with you and questioning my own knowledge for D&D rules:

I guess you can say it's "magical" fire...but scientifically, you can't start a fire without air fueling it.

So if the SRD says it's magical fire, then this whole debate about air or water existing is pointless. That doesn't mean those elements don't slip over into the EpoF, they do. But those elements don't make up ANY part of a Fire Elemental.

Moisture != Water. There goes that whole arguement

Huh? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, moisture = water, therefore, you can't have a 2nd element in a "FIRE" elemental. Where exactly did that arguement go?

As I said earlier, there is no reason to assume there isnt some sort of moisture that keeps it going somehow. Such as some sort of odd napalm like fluid for whatever reason.

1. I said fire evaporates moisture. You point out moisture = water (wow, yer smart). Therefore, fire evaporates water.

2. Moisture doesn't fuel fire, air fuels fire. Apparently the SRD says that it is in fact magical fire, so air isn't even needed to fuel a Fire Elemental. So nothing is needed to fuel the flames...so why would there be anything else for Horrid Wilting to affect?

3. A Fire Elemental is pure fire. It's not fire that surrounds a mass of some type of gas, water, air, flesh, or anything else. If it was, it would be a Cross Breed.

The original poster asked for advice. I'm just pointing out what a Fire Elemental is. If you want to make a Fire Elemental be a half-breed in your game and allow Horrid Wilting to suck water from a Fire Elemental, then whatever. I'm just saying that it doesn't make sense...especially when fire doesn't even store water; fire feeds from air (and which has been pointed out in the SRD, the fire element doesn't even need air to fuel it). So again, fire evaporates water, so why would there be water in a Fire Elemental for Horrid Wilting to affect?

 

[Chorn]

If you're going to quote what I say to debate it, then also quote and respond to the comments where I'm possibly agreeing with you and questioning my own knowledge for D&D rules

The way I read it, you were simply saying fire needs air. Whatever. I was just poking holes in your theory in good humor.

Huh? Yeah, that's what I'm saying, moisture = water,

Scion did NOT say moisture equals water. He said moisture does NOT equal water. In the C programming language a "!=" operator is used to mean "not equal".

Apparently the SRD says that it is in fact magical fire, so air isn't even needed to fuel a Fire Elemental.

Nitpick. It's not magical fire, but simply fire. It's just that it doesn't happen to require air on the Plane of Fire because of the plane's very nature.