hostage and risk

[Guillaume]

Here is a question for all your rules gurus. In many movies and novels, there comes a time, when in desperation, the BBEG grabs a helpless victim/innocent bystander/hero and holds them with a knife at the throat/gun to the head. The heros must thread carfully or risk having the said helpless victim/innocent bystander/hero be killed in one swift flick of the wrist. It always make for strong dramatic situations.

My question is: is it possible to translate this in D&D terms ? I had considered using a mechanic where the BBEG grapples the victim then uses a coup de grace on the next round for the kill. Problem is that under a grapple, the victim is not helpless, therefore, a coup de grace is not applicable. So any suggestions ? Anything I'm missing ?

Thanks,

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I don't have books handy, so I can't comment on the coup de gras question right now - but I'll head off one other question that comes up in situations like these a lot.

The hostage taker is essentially readying an action to kill (or try) the hostage; some will say you can't ready an action outside of combat - but I say that as soon as the hostage is grabbed, combat is initiated. The PC's should have an opportunity to roll initiative and potentially beat the hostage taker to the punch. If they can't then the scenario proceeds.

Most times these scenarios will involve low-level hostages. PC hostages should have the chance to turn the tables on their foe - I can't see a PC getting killed in this kind of scenario very often. The hostage taker is likely to be a rogue or fighter type - and therefore doing good damage even without coup de gras (which can't be readied in most cases, as you can't ready a full-round action). The typical innocent bystander won't survive even a regular attack from a villain, unless the villain is an STR 8 wizard - and the STR 8 Wizard shouldn't be trying that kind of desperate move.

 

[Corlon]

yeah, make the hostage a king's daughter, but give her one level of commoner. Therefore she has huge plot significance, but about 2-4 hp, which pretty much any BBEG can do just by thinking.

In terms of doing it to PCs, as in tackling the wizard and holding a dagger to his throat while telling all the other people ot back off or you'll kill him...it doesn't work. The correct response in that situation is to all charge into the grapple, letting the wizard take his d4+whatever damage and then allowing them to kill the BBEG.

 

[AuraSeer]

If the hostage is an unarmed noncombatant, I suggest ruling that she is too frightened to resist. She is automatically failing her grapple check, meaning the villain need not roll to hold on. By DM fiat you can rule that her voluntary immobility makes her effectively helpless, and therefore subject to CDG.

This will even allow for the stereotypical ending for the scene, where the hostage elbows her captor in the stomach and leaps out of danger. In rules terms, she realized his attention was not on her, so she got over her fear and attempted a grapple check. Even if she fails to escape, she is no longer a helpless unresisting target, so she's not subject to CDG on the villain's turn.

 

[Darkness]

My question is: is it possible to translate this in D&D terms ? I had considered using a mechanic where the BBEG grapples the victim then uses a coup de grace on the next round for the kill. Problem is that under a grapple, the victim is not helpless, therefore, a coup de grace is not applicable. So any suggestions ? Anything I'm missing ?

Well, as others said, use a hostage that isn't very tough.

Failing that, you can try any or all of the following:

Lots of Sneak Attack.

Massive damage save (necessitated by, for example, lots of Sneak Attack).

Death Attack.

Poison her first (sleep or paralysis poison).

 

[Joker]

I don't know exactly where but in the PHB it says somewhere that no matter how many hitpoints you have, a dagger through the eye is still a dagger through the eye.
So in this situation IMO a dagger to the throat is still a dagger to the throat and if the BBEG doesn't like what the PC's are doing, the hostie is dead. I don't know how long it takes for someone to die from a slit throat so the PC's may have a chance to heal the victim.

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

The issue with the dagger through the eye example isn't how much damage that would do, but how the dagger got into that position. You'd have to have the person pretty much defenseless in order to get to that point.

I's say that a successful grapple followed by a good Intimidate check could cause a hostage to basically freeze up, making them essentially helpless. If a player of mine made that argument, I'd allow it.

 

[Jdvn1]

How about, "Don't move or I'll teleport us away and torture the hostage to death?"

Not exactly the same, but same effect.

 

[domino]

How about, "Don't move or I'll teleport us away and torture the hostage to death?"

Not exactly the same, but same effect.

Of course, the traditional method for taking a hostage to hold someone at bay is to have insurance of a safe escape. If you can teleport away, there's no need for a hostage.

 

[Amal Shukup]

Here is a question for all your rules gurus. In many movies and novels, there comes a time, when in desperation, the BBEG grabs a helpless victim/innocent bystander/hero and holds them with a knife at the throat/gun to the head. The heros must thread carfully or risk having the said helpless victim/innocent bystander/hero be killed in one swift flick of the wrist. It always make for strong dramatic situations.

My question is: is it possible to translate this in D&D terms ? I had considered using a mechanic where the BBEG grapples the victim then uses a coup de grace on the next round for the kill. Problem is that under a grapple, the victim is not helpless, therefore, a coup de grace is not applicable. So any suggestions ? Anything I'm missing ?

This works better with a Minion or two...

Scene:
Party, plus relatively fragile Hostage-to-be are milling about doing their non-combatty thing. Sadly, Hostage-to-be steps too close to where baddies are lurking. Optionally, this could be a 'grab whoever walks through the door' or a 'grab the cautious NPC who DOESN'T walk through the door' thing...

Surprise Round:
Minion(s) steps out from behind cover (5'step) and Initiates a Grapple
BBEG steps out with dagger in hand (5' step) and 'Readies' an Attack (Standard Action). Speaks (Free Action) "Freeze Suckahs! Everybdy plays nice and nobody needs to get all dead"

the Readied Action will absolutely happen before the PCs can act. If the BBEG won initiative, a SECOND throat cutting might occur (if required). Because the hostage is grappled by a third party, they get no Dex to AC (Sneak Attack!)

1st Round
Minion(s) Achieves Pin, making the Hostage even easier to Dispatch.
BBEG: "Now Toss your weapons off the (convenient) ledge and lie down on the Floor. Nobody needs to die today..."

2nd Round
Minion(s) Moves (in concert with BBEG) towards escape route...
BBEG: "Mwha ha ha ha..."
​

Variations:
No Minion, but a Readied Action and a Heavy Crossbow with an obviously poisoned bolt might give the party pause if the NPC in question only has 4 HP....

Likewise, a Readied Action and a GreatAxe should provide concern...

Use the Surprise Round to cast 'Hold Person' (or something similar) on the Hostage. On the 1st Round, move adjacent and Ready a 'Start Full Round Action' (Coup) which you complete next round. This provides much Drama, as the PCs would actually have a shot at stopping the action in question...
​

My players will rue the day you asked such an EXCELLENT question...

A'Mal