House Rule: Ammunition

[DiceyDM]

As a DM I like to trust my players to keep track of their own stuff. I wont ask my casters for a list of prepared spells, I wont keep track of their rations, torches, etc. I like to delegate tasks and put the responsibility in their hands. If you are cheating at an RPG with your friends around a table, you have some serious character flaws you need to fix in order to be an enjoyable DM and Player!

That said, I don't want to force them to keep track of too many things. Ammunition is something I feel is tedious and does not need to be recorded.

Instead I've implemented the following house rule. Characters can hold up to two quivers that have unlimited ammo. If a character making a ranged attack rolls a natural 3 or below, that quiver ends up spilling out and is lost. If the character makes a ranged attack with a special quiver (fire arrows, arrow of dragon slaying, etc) the quiver is lost with a natural roll of 6 and below.

At first you might think: "unlimited Ammo- your giving them too much" or "your breaking the game". But these natural rolls happen more often then you might think.

Also loosing a quiver allows for more adventuring. A character might have to spend time making new arrows, or buy a new quiver or he/she might find one on a dead enemy. I find if you have one special quiver and one regular quiver you really have to decide when its worth it to fire it. If you have 20 fire arrows in the bag, you wont really think "oooo is it worth shooting this fire arrow off right now?" until you're down to 10 or below. With my house rule, players definitely debate the risks and rewards of which arrow to fire and when.

Anyway, just wanted to contribute. Please tell me what you all think.

 

[Derren]

Anyway, just wanted to contribute. Please tell me what you all think.

That this is a bad rule.

1. Removing ammunition tracking (whats tedious about simple subtractions btw?) removes several possible situations the PCs might find themselves in (getting low on ammunition in a dungeon and having to collect from enemies or otherwise engage in resource conserving tactics for example).
2. Players can not plan their ammo consumption. It is not possible from them to stock up on arrows when they venture out and the player has no idea if he has many arrows left or not as it is completely random.
3. It removes arrows as an item which can be used outside of combat. A little far fetched example, but imagine the party has to rest in a cold, arid environment and have no firewood with them. They could burn arrows, but how many do they have?
4. Because of the random system of ammo consumption and the quite high chance each attack (15% for normal, 30% for special ammo) it will happen quite often that the PC runs out of arrows in the middle or even start of combat without any chance to anticipate or prepare for this because it is random.
5. With an unknown quantity of arrows in the possession of a PC, carrying capacity automatically goes out of the window which also removes even more considerations from the PCs like if they need a pack horse for their equipment etc.

 

[DiscerningDM]

Depends on what your players are after

It really depends on what your players are after. Some player love tracking their ammunition, and reliably do so on their own. Others would prefer ammunition tracking not be part of a game.

In general, "old school" design conceits like mapping as a player skill being part of the game, ammunition tracking, and the like really depend on the group. A lot of players understand why keeping maps is realistic, or tracking ammo, but even players who understand don't think it belongs as part of a game for fun.

I use a similar house rule because players, generally, are poor at tracking their own ammunition. Not cheating, just forgetting. Players who are goot at ammo tracking end up punished when their character runs out of arrows, while another is firing all day long. House rules like this can bridge a good middle ground.

 

[Morrus]

If you are cheating at an RPG with your friends around a table, you have some serious character flaws you need to fix in order to be an enjoyable DM and Player!

Conversely, I think somebody thinking "Holy crap, is this game really making me track all this crap? I though I was here to have fun!" doesn't so much have a "serious character flaw" as much as a decent sense of priorities.

It really takes a certain type of person to enjoy accounting in an RPG.

 

[Blackbrrd]

Sounds like the worst of both worlds.

 

[Li Shenron]

Instead I've implemented the following house rule. Characters can hold up to two quivers that have unlimited ammo. If a character making a ranged attack rolls a natural 3 or below, that quiver ends up spilling out and is lost. If the character makes a ranged attack with a special quiver (fire arrows, arrow of dragon slaying, etc) the quiver is lost with a natural roll of 6 and below.

My gut reaction is that for normal ammunitions a natural 3 means it's going to happen way too often, i.e. almost every day. I would have thought that even a natural 1 might make it too frequent: it's a 1 in 20, if you imagine that an archer PC may shoot 4-5 arrows per encounter, that means to run out of ammo typically every 4 or 5 encounters. Keep in mind that once extra attacks kick in, then it's going to happen twice as often, then three times... Now multiply by 3 (as per your idea) and see how often you get.

For special ammunitions, it depends on how common they are in your fantasy setting. If they are just "better" arrows, you can use the same rule, but if in your setting they really are special (i.e. rare) you probably should make an exception and count them individually.

Your chance-based house rule in general is going to work fine, but be sure you check the frequency of occurrence! Once a while running out of ammo might be interesting, but if it's too often I would imagine everyone will start to hate it.

5. With an unknown quantity of arrows in the possession of a PC, carrying capacity automatically goes out of the window which also removes even more considerations from the PCs like if they need a pack horse for their equipment etc.

He is trying to come up with a house rule to avoid keeping track of ammunitions, and you are worried about keeping track of weight? A player or group who is not interested in the first is very likely even less interested in the second, which is more complicated.

 

[DiceyDM]

My gut reaction is that for normal ammunitions a natural 3 means it's going to happen way too often, i.e. almost every day. I would have thought that even a natural 1 might make it too frequent: it's a 1 in 20, if you imagine that an archer PC may shoot 4-5 arrows per encounter, that means to run out of ammo typically every 4 or 5 encounters. Keep in mind that once extra attacks kick in, then it's going to happen twice as often, then three times... Now multiply by 3 (as per your idea) and see how often you get.

Its funny you mention this, because when we first used this rule a normal quiver would fall out on a natural 1, and special quivers would fall out on a natural 3. My players started to feel like it wasnt happening enough. 1s would happen, but very rarely- even with extra attack. They actually suggested to me to up it.

For special ammunitions, it depends on how common they are in your fantasy setting. If they are just "better" arrows, you can use the same rule, but if in your setting they really are special (i.e. rare) you probably should make an exception and count them individually.

In my fantasy setting most "special" arrows are common. Ill usually let them be either fire arrows- Arrows with their tips dipped in oil that are lit as a free action and fired for their action. I also allow and use poison tips arrows. The fire does an extra d6 of fire dmg and the poison does and extra d4 of poison dmg and the monster must save vrs poison. On a failed save the monster takes and additonal d4 dmg at the begining of its next turn (so total max dmg on a poison dmg is 8 extra). Both types must be prepared before, and if you have the materials, you can always convert a regular quiver into a fire or poison. As long as someone has oil or poison they can burn an action in a combat round to prep the arrow for their next turn. This works for me because I like giving my players treasure, it makes them stronger a little too quickly, so in an effort to manage the action economy i enjoy this feature of burning an action for something special on their next action.

For more special/rare arrow abilities, I just build those directly into magic items. So a bow of dragon slaying is magical +1 and also has a +3 vs dragons (does NOT stack to make 4!). The only thing that is kinda becoming an issue for me (not my players) is Im getting really into non plus +1 or +2 magic weapons/items, and still have these cool flares. I might insert a bow that is magical for the purpose of overcoming resistance that fires *insert element* arrows with no plus to hit but always has the extra dmg bonus. But if you have no quivers, you cant fire arrows... better go make some out of kobold bones or something... Creativity is key. Rule of awesome always wins at my table unless it seriously breaks the game/is too far fetched. Im not interested in playing a realistic game with mega rules (which is why D&D Next RULES IMO). I want to play a fun game that takes players on an fantasy adventure, rewards creativity and keeps them on their toes.

 

[GMMichael]

Conversely, I think somebody thinking "Holy crap, is this game really making me track all this crap? I though I was here to have fun!" doesn't so much have a "serious character flaw" as much as a decent sense of priorities.

It really takes a certain type of person to enjoy accounting in an RPG.

I think what Morrus meant to say was,

"Um, hello? I included a great mechanic for unknown time (quantity) limits in my game that's now on Kickstarter! Called Countdowns!"

So next to a PC's quiver inventory entry, he has a space for tick marks. Each quiver gets a 6d6 countdown. Every time you shoot, instead of marking off an arrow, you add a mark for each die of your countdown you've lost. Now instead of counting to 20, you're counting to 6.

Meh. I tried, Morrus. But I'd rather just tick off 20 arrows.

The OP's idea is risky, because a PC could roll LOSE-YOUR-QUIVER on his first shot. Then the session would be short by a player. Also, it should be noted that wearing two quivers will introduce some interesting gear complications, the most common of which being that using a backpack becomes impossible.

 

[Morrus]

I think what Morrus meant to say was,

"Um, hello? I included a great mechanic for unknown time (quantity) limits in my game that's now on Kickstarter! Called Countdowns!"

So next to a PC's quiver inventory entry, he has a space for tick marks. Each quiver gets a 6d6 countdown. Every time you shoot, instead of marking off an arrow, you add a mark for each die of your countdown you've lost. Now instead of counting to 20, you're counting to 6.

Meh. I tried, Morrus. But I'd rather just tick off 20 arrows.

My game doesn't do ammunition like that at all.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Besides the problems above, I feel it greatly favors certain ranged weapons that use quivers or pouches for ammo over those that are merely thrown- javelins, spears, daggers, axes, etc.