House Rule for non-lethal damage

[Trainz]

Here goes...

You have two sets of hit points: Lethal and Non-Lethal. They are both the same. A 5th level Tough Hero with 45 hit points has 45 non-lethal hit-points.

When you are damaged by a non-lethal attack, you loose non-lethal hit points only. However, you cannot have more non-lethal hit points than lethal hit-points, for exemple:

Our tough hero gets pummeled down from 45 to 35 NLH (Non-Lethal Hits). He then eats a bullet that does 15 damage (from 45 to 30 LH (Lethal Hits). His NLH's are also brought down to 30.

NLH's are regained at the rate of 1 per round.

If your NLH go down below 0, every time you are hit you must make a Fort Save DC 15 or pass out. You come back up when you NLH's are at 0 and up (remember, you regain them fast). Any non-lethal damage you receive when you are at -10 NLH is applied directly to your regular hit-points (LH).

Remember, even if you are below 0 with your NLH, if you keep making your Fort save, you are still up and kicking, but if below -10 NLH, you are probably bleeding profusely.

I am winging this as I type... does it make any sense ? ? ?

 

[Trainz]

Another addition: A tough Hero with the Talent that allows him to stay conscious when under 0 hit points adds his level when making his Fort Save when under 0 NLH's: he is too tough to be knocked-out most of the time.

Feedback ? Anyone ?

Please ?

 

[Khur]

Subdual

What you've come up with here is very similar to subdual damage in D&D. Your idea is certainly decent, and more playable than non-lethal damage in d20 Modern.

 

[Trainz]

Thanks Khur.

I agree with you. I'm probably gonna go that way IMC.

 

[Khur]

Unbreakable!

The Unbreakable talent tree for the Tough Hero clearly has ramifications to your damage model, as you stated. I might make the Tough Hero with 'Remain Conscious" able to remain standing all the way up to -1 x Tough Hero level non-lethal hps.

You may wish to consider the Clobbered (optional) and Staggered conditions from D&D, if you have access to those rules. Further, the Fortitude save in d20 Modern for exceeding the non-lethal massive damage threshold can be left in. Perhaps a Tough Hero gets a bonus to the save, as you stated.

What about the other talents in the Unbreakable tree? They clearly have some application to your system. Second Wind might provide a sudden influx of a large amount of non-lethal hps (5x Con mod?), while Stamina simply doubles the healing rate for non-lethal hps.

I'm a bit leary of the 1 non-lethal hp per round healing rate. Let me know how the idea works in play. (Subdual in D&D heals 1 x character level per hour.) Maybe use 1 + Constitution bonus per minute (thus a minimum of 1/minute).

For a bit of realism, consider that a critical strike might do "real" damage, instead of non-lethal, automatically. Perhaps add to an exsisting feat (such as Brawl) that a character may choose to simply do more (x2 critical multiplier) non-lethal damage in this case. This has the effect of simulating the random and rare deadly blow that can come along in a fist fight. (I know of a guy who killed a horse with one blow--no he wasn't a nice man.)

This system harkens back to the Wound Point/ Hit Point system of Star Wars. It's a shame it was dropped for d20 Modern.

Anyway, enjoy tinkering!

 

[Trainz]

I really like your input, and will give some of it a shot in my games. Sadly, we are on some sort of "holidays break" and will only start again in the beginning of January.

I like the "regain 1 NLH per round" thing because this mechanic would replace the "uncouscious for 1d4+1 round" elegantly. Plus, it has the merit of being elegant for boxing matches too.

 

[Khur]

Yep...

That does work for boxing. Perhaps, though, losing a certain amount of NLH (as you put it) should translate into real damage. 5 NLH = 1 real hp, or something.

Even boxers take a few days (or more) to recover from the real injury they sustain in a match.

 

[BiggusGeekus@Work]

Trainz,

That looks cool.

I'm thinking about doing something similar. I've noted that all firearms seem to use 2 damage dice. I've been thinking about making one die do subdual damage and the other die to actual combat damage, but the damage die is open ended (ie you re-roll if you get the maximum number on the die).

But my system is a little flawed. Guns that do 2d4 will end up having more open ended rolls than the more potent 2d10 guns.

 

[Trainz]

You are probably taking your idea from the 2nd AD&D edition rules for firearms (pistol, arquebuse...), this is exactly how they did it (albeit with only one die).

The pistol did only 1d4, but could potentially do much more if you kept rolling 4's.

 

[Trainz]

Re: Yep...

That does work for boxing. Perhaps, though, losing a certain amount of NLH (as you put it) should translate into real damage. 5 NLH = 1 real hp, or something.

Even boxers take a few days (or more) to recover from the real injury they sustain in a match.

Interesting. Another thing that I considered when I read this (and also almost discarded) it to take away all subdual damage althogether, and decide that a fist attack does 0 real damage plus strength bonuses.

Thus someone with 12 strength would do 1 point of damage per successful attack, someone with 18 strength would do 4 damage, and someone under 12 strength is simply too weak to actually inflict damage.

Like I said, I decided to not go that way, but I am typing it just so that it might give someone some ideas...