House Rules for a swashbuckling game?

[randomling]

I've got an idea for what is perhaps a more equitable fix to the crit. range/VP/WP question - let the weapon do normal damage to the WP, as standard, but let any remainder from multipliers (perhaps multipliers over two only) do damage to VP as well. This makes crits scary, but keeps threat ranges reasonable as well as preserving an advantage possessed by weapons like axes.

Hmmmm. Let's see. Taking a character of mine, Jez, who does 2d6+6 base damage (Str 16, specialized with a greatsword). Rolling her damage twice, I get 15, followed by 13. She'd do 15 points of WP damage, and 13 points of VP damage. Not bad - the WP is nearly enough to kill her there.

Alternatively (taking multipliers over double) with a greataxe, she'd do 1d12+4 - she's not specialized - and x3 on a crit. She gets 11, 13 and 9 - for 24 points of WP damage and 9 of VP. Very cool.

But wouldn't it make more sense for the base damage to stay at VP, and the "extra" damage to go straight to WP? Mechanically probably not much difference, but it sounds better. To me anyway.

It's basically a really cool idea though - may have to swipe it!

 

[Prothall]

Why thankee. Lemme just establish that I worked under the assumption that WP is what makes you die, and VP isn't. I think what you suggested, about the "base damage" means you factor in all the things that don't get multiplied. I think that's a matter of preference, since keeping the base damage directed at WP keeps it quite lethal, while directing it at VP makes it a touch less so, for somewhat added survivability.

 

[randomling]

Why thankee. Lemme just establish that I worked under the assumption that WP is what makes you die, and VP isn't. I think what you suggested, about the "base damage" means you factor in all the things that don't get multiplied. I think that's a matter of preference, since keeping the base damage directed at WP keeps it quite lethal, while directing it at VP makes it a touch less so, for somewhat added survivability.

That's a good point - and my rules fu is not that strong, so I tend to suggest things for flavour's sake and wait for other people to critique them.

For what it's worth, though, I'm not sure what base damage doesn't get multiplied. There's sneak attack - but under what strange system would that not go to WP in the first place? Ah... damage from your flaming weapon and such would be base damage that doesn't get multiplied, right? Leaving aside the fact that magic weapons are likely to be pretty rare in my game, you have a point.

I like the idea of "wounds hits make you die, vitality hits make you unconscious", which means that taking a VP hit isn't necessarily so nonlethal in the first place (coup de grace). And a game with Fate Points doesn't work too well if it's not that lethal in the first place, so your spin on it is probably better.

Thanks!

 

[DanMcS]

DanMcS: Ooh, I like the Parry rule! *swipe*

Welcome to it. I didn't come up with it, that's the one from the Dragon mag a while back that had rules for swashbuckling and parrying and stuff. Don't recall the issue number, low 300s I think, but I recommend it.

 

[Prothall]

Anytime.

That quote in your signature yours? I know it fits me well enough, right to the +1 Shirt (available from rocketninja.com).

 

[randomling]

Anytime.

That quote in your signature yours? I know it fits me well enough, right to the +1 Shirt (available from rocketninja.com).

Not mine - it's a promotional quote for my own message boards! Genuine user feedback, too...

On topic - going to have to track down that Dragon (yay for friends who collect them)...

Going to have to do some rejigging of the d20 Modern base classes tonight and see where we end up, too.

 

[S'mon]

Hi Randomling!

>>Defence progressions - I probably won't use Dodge and Parry progressions. Instead you'll probably get a class-based defence progression (either unnamed or Dodge bonus, not sure yet)<<

Making it a Dodge bonus allows high-level characters to be vulnerable to low level foes if caught flatfooted, as when your PCs killed the pirate chief Balmec. I think that's good.

>>and I'll use DanMcS's Parry rule.<<

The Parry rule sounds good - very similar to what I used in a Highlander/AD&D game I ran with Ingrid; active parries make for exciting duels!
Tying it to Attacks of Opportunity is a nice idea and encourages high-DEX swashbuckler types over plodding tanks.

>>In a low-magic setting like Hundred Isles you're going to need to heal faster. I'm not sure how a WP/VP system works: do you have Vitality Points equal to what would be your hit points in standard D&D - say, 1d10+Con mod for a fighter - and Wound Points equal to your Con score? <<

Yes, that's how it works in eg Traveller20 & Star Wars, AIR. Although in Star Wars the mooks have no VP, just WP. Allows for dangerous foes who go down easily.

>>Some WP/VP questions:
What's the usual rule - that once you're out of VP, damage goes straight to Wounds?<<

Yes.

>>Critical and sneak attack damage go straight to Wounds, right?<<

Usually the first 'lot' of critical damage goes to Wounds, the rest to VP, although you could just have all damage go to VP first, with WP as a 'reserve pool'. Sneak attack damage going to Wounds would be extremely lethal, any high-level Sneak attack would be immediately fatal (if death/disability at WP 0). I'd tend to suggest always applying it to VP, along with other 'dice' dmg. After VP > 0 the remaining damage goes to WP, so it can still kill.

>>How about damage from magic attacks?<<

Go to VP first (as would falling/burning/drowning etc) except for critical hits on touch attacks.

 

[randomling]

Hi Randomling!

Hi!

>>Defence progressions - I probably won't use Dodge and Parry progressions. Instead you'll probably get a class-based defence progression (either unnamed or Dodge bonus, not sure yet)<<

Making it a Dodge bonus allows high-level characters to be vulnerable to low level foes if caught flatfooted, as when your PCs killed the pirate chief Balmec. I think that's good.

Mhm, cool, that definitely fits with the feel I want.

>>and I'll use DanMcS's Parry rule.<<

The Parry rule sounds good - very similar to what I used in a Highlander/AD&D game I ran with Ingrid; active parries make for exciting duels!
Tying it to Attacks of Opportunity is a nice idea and encourages high-DEX swashbuckler types over plodding tanks.

Again, that does what I want. As somebody said above, makes the Combat Reflexes/high Dex pairing a really really useful one. This is working for me so far!

>>In a low-magic setting like Hundred Isles you're going to need to heal faster. I'm not sure how a WP/VP system works: do you have Vitality Points equal to what would be your hit points in standard D&D - say, 1d10+Con mod for a fighter - and Wound Points equal to your Con score? <<

Yes, that's how it works in eg Traveller20 & Star Wars, AIR. Although in Star Wars the mooks have no VP, just WP. Allows for dangerous foes who go down easily.

OK. Cool, that's useful to know.

>>Some WP/VP questions:
What's the usual rule - that once you're out of VP, damage goes straight to Wounds?<<

Yes.

>>Critical and sneak attack damage go straight to Wounds, right?<<

Usually the first 'lot' of critical damage goes to Wounds, the rest to VP, although you could just have all damage go to VP first, with WP as a 'reserve pool'. Sneak attack damage going to Wounds would be extremely lethal, any high-level Sneak attack would be immediately fatal (if death/disability at WP 0). I'd tend to suggest always applying it to VP, along with other 'dice' dmg. After VP > 0 the remaining damage goes to WP, so it can still kill.

>>How about damage from magic attacks?<<

Go to VP first (as would falling/burning/drowning etc) except for critical hits on touch attacks.

OK, excellent - definitely got a better handle on that now! One question I forgot to ask though: when do you die? WP 0? WP -10? WP -Con?

Personally, I could see an argument for, perhaps, "bleeding to death" at WP 0 (losing 1 WP/round until you die or are healed, a la D&D Core rules) with, perhaps, Fort saves to stay standing and fighting as long as you aren't dead. (Much more stylish than just falling down.) And at WP -Con, you'd die.

I wouldn't necessarily rule that you're unconscious once you're bleeding and have failed (or forgone) your Fort save to keep fighting. I want the rules to allow for Momentous Last Words! (Watched Pirates of the Caribbean last night: "I feel.... cold...." *thunk*)

 

[randomling]

All right. Thus far, I'm leaning towards going with the D20 Modern base classes (Strong, Fast, Tough, Smart, Dedicated, Charismatic). Magic will be available through Advanced Classes and, to a very small extent, feats. I'm still working on the Advanced Classes, but here's a list of a few that I think will be necessary:

Thief; Pirate; Musketeer; Witch; Wizard; Druid; Chosen One (clericish - most priests are Dedicated or Charismatic heroes with no magic); Paladin.

Probably quite a few others which would mostly be written up as needed, I guess. (Ideas are welcomed, though!)

The problem with tinkering with the rules for the exact flavour you want is that it's a lot of work!

 

[randomling]

Two New Feats

These feats fit the flavour I'm thinking of to a T, but are probably a little bit overpowered. The Faith feat has a very strict roleplaying requirement, and will be a prerequisite for at least two of my religious classes (Chosen One and Paladin), so I want it to be cool. (Right now, I'm working on the assumption that I'll be using a modified version of Modern rules, so I'm working with Allegiances as opposed to Alignment.) As for Talent - I have no idea if it's balanced or not (but again, it's an Advanced Class prereq - for Witch). In any case, here we go:

FAITH
You have a powerful faith in your deity.
Prerequisite: Primary Allegiance to any Church or deity, Wis 11+.
Benefit: Choose one of the following benefits. (All choices are made when you take this feat and cannot be changed later.)

1. Choose one Allegiance that is opposed to that of your Church or deity, such as an opposing Church or deity, or a moral or ethical stance to which your Church or deity is opposed. You gain one of the following benefits against creatures with this Allegiance only:

a) Once per day, you may repel one creature with your opposed Allegiance. If you succeed at a level check (1d20 + character level + Charisma bonus) the creature may not approach within 20ft, attack you, or direct others to harm you in any way. The effect lasts for one hour. This version of the feat grants you no special ability to determine which creatures do or do not have the opposed Allegiance.

b) Spell resistance equal to 11 + character level.

2. Your Faith bolsters your spirit. You gain a +4 morale bonus on all saving throws against fear effects.

3. Your deity grants you a small amount of divine power. Choose one 0-level spell from the cleric list. You may cast this spell a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier.

TALENT
You have a minor magical aptitude.
Prerequisite: Int 11+, Wis 11+, or Cha 11+.
Benefit: You may cast a small amount of magic. Choose one of the following options:

Intelligent Caster. You know one of the following 0-level spells: Detect Magic, Read Magic, Prestidigitation, or Mage Hand. You may cast the spell a number of times per day equal to your Intelligence modifier. Where applicable, your caster level is equal to your character level.

Wise Caster. You know one of the following 0-level spells: Cure Minor Wounds, Know Direction, Guidance, or Virtue. You may cast the spell a number of times per day equal to your Wisdom modifier. Where applicable, your caster level is equal to your character level.

Charismatic Caster. You know one of the following 0-level spells: Ghost Sound, Dancing Lights, Daze, or Lullaby. You may cast the spell a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier. Where applicable, your caster level is equal to your character level.

All critiques are appreciated - thanks in advance!