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Houserule: 2 subclasses at once.

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
General houserule idea: When you select your subclass at level 1, 2, or 3, select 2 subclasses and gain the benefits of both.

Purpose: Increase character diversity, shake things up and add some general zaniness to the game.

Other clarifications: No multiclassing (characters are already pretty varied, general zaniness doesn't need to increase to WTF zaniness levels.)


Basically, I'm aware that this would make characters more powerful, and require me to balance encounters on my own more stringently, since CR will be less of a guide.

I'm just curious if there are any combinations that are way too strong, or way too weak, or if some classes have subclasses strong enough that having 2 would impact class balance too negatively. (Obviously, balance impact would exist, which is fine as long as it doesn't make one class the obvious choice.)
 

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MonkeezOnFire

Adventurer
I think the classes you will have to keep the closest eye on are those that have subclasses that grant a pool of resources on top of what the base class already gets. For example the fighter. If you take both battlemaster and eldritch knight you get two different resource pools granted to you, one which refreshes on short rests which allow the PC to use much more power in a day than normal. This contrasts with the cleric which while they get new spells known and multiple options for channel divinity, those features are still using the same resource pool and can't actually do more spell casting than a normal cleric would be able to do.

You might want also want to watch out for Barbarian and rangers combining subclasses as both of them have multiple subclass options that can be used to increase damage. Zealot and Berserker both have the goal to increase your damage while raging while Hunter and Monster Slayer both have similar abilities to do extra damage with attacks once per turn. If these show up you'll probably want to give your monsters some extra toughness.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
I'm just curious if there are any combinations that are way too strong, or way too weak...
Maybe not too weak, but at least mildly screwed will be any subclasses that grant abilities which compete for the same resources, such as Monk subclasses costing Ki or Sorcerer subclasses costing sorcery points.
 

OB1

Jedi Master
I love the idea and don’t think it would be a huge bump in power. If you want to curb that, you could take away ASI bumps. Maybe give players a choice between ASIs or gaining 2 subclasses?
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal

Purpose: Increase character diversity, ...
Wouldn't this be the opposite? Two of the same class are more likely to have overlap if they are picking two subclasses instead of one.

That's not against the idea, just that that partial goal I don't think it addresses.
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
Maybe not too weak, but at least mildly screwed will be any subclasses that grant abilities which compete for the same resources, such as Monk subclasses costing Ki or Sorcerer subclasses costing sorcery points.
Really good point. Channel divinity can join Ki as another example.

And it could also be contention for other resources - for example if both subclasses grant special abilities that need a bonus action to activate, then it's either/or vs. other classes that could get all of their advantages at the same time.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
Wouldn't this be the opposite? Two of the same class are more likely to have overlap if they are picking two subclasses instead of one.

That's not against the idea, just that that partial goal I don't think it addresses.
That's a valid point. I was thinking of it more from the standpoint of "If class A has 6 subclasses, picking two of the six gives you fifteen options, instead of just six".

My own group tends to avoid class repeats, so I'm not overly concerned with possible subclass overlap. Still, something to think about, thanks!
 

OB1

Jedi Master
Really good point. Channel divinity can join Ki as another example.

And it could also be contention for other resources - for example if both subclasses grant special abilities that need a bonus action to activate, then it's either/or vs. other classes that could get all of their advantages at the same time.
I don’t understand how that makes the option weaker than having just one subclass. Yes they compete for the same resource, but you have more options on what to do with that resource, which in turn likely leads to using the resource more often. Can’t tell you how many times I see players with leftover Chanel divinities at the end of an adventuring day.
 

TwoSix

The hero you deserve
Supporter
Maybe not too weak, but at least mildly screwed will be any subclasses that grant abilities which compete for the same resources, such as Monk subclasses costing Ki or Sorcerer subclasses costing sorcery points.
Good point. It was actually the thread going around a few days ago, about combining open hand monk and 4 elements monk together, that got me thinking about it. Subclasses which depend on the same resource would definitely be a less effective synergy.

That's kind of the problem with 4 elements monk to begin with, it's just giving options for a resource that's already connected to very good options from the base class. Definitely something worth thinking about.
 

jaelis

Oh this is where the title goes?
I'm curious, which class do you think would benefit the most from this rule, and which the least?
I'd agree with monk as one of the least.
Perhaps fighter as one of the most?
 

Blue

Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal
I don’t understand how that makes the option weaker than having just one subclass. Yes they compete for the same resource, but you have more options on what to do with that resource, which in turn likely leads to using the resource more often. Can’t tell you how many times I see players with leftover Chanel divinities at the end of an adventuring day.
I'm not comparing against one subclass, I'm comparing against two other subclasses.

For instance, Fighter (Samurai + Champion) can give themselves Advantage and take advantage of an increased crit range at the same time. Their power is straightforward increased as they both work at the same time in a multiplicative way.

A Paladin (Devotion + Vengeance) will be able to benfit from both auras at 7th level, but they have a limited number of Channel Divinity uses to split between powering their oaths. So they have a power boost, but not as great as the Fighter.

Both are more powerful than a single class, but the some combinations get more out of it than others.

Not a big deal at any particular table, especially when players and DM communicate. Just pointing it out.
 

Saelorn

Hero
I think the classes you will have to keep the closest eye on are those that have subclasses that grant a pool of resources on top of what the base class already gets.
More generally, each class gains a different amount of its power from its subclass. A wizard might only get 6% of its total utility from its subclass features, while a barbarian or warlock gets 20%, such that the latter classes gain more of a bonus from having multiple subclasses.
 


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