D&D 5E (Houserule) Adding Int to Initiative for All Classes

[Yaarel]

Now beasts are bad at perception too? or maybe all beasts really are as smart or smarter than humans?

Beasts get a skill bonus. For example, Dog gets +10 to Intelligence (Perception) checks to detect a distinct smell. And so on.

Just because an animal can smell something strange doesnt mean the animal is smart enough to understand what it is.

 

[Yaarel]

Similarly, if an animal like Bat can hear well, it may not be able to see well. Animal supersenses are various skill bonuses to perception checks.

 

[Jefe Bergenstein]

This is a solution in search of a problem. There's always going to be one "worst" stat. We don't need to make combat any more of a cakewalk by having the big brute monsters go slower, and wizards sure as hell don't need any boosts. Add in trickle down effects of fiddling with skills etc... just no lol.

I'd grant extra languages and maybe tool proficiencies equal to Int bonus.

 

[Ganymede81]

Did the smart kids in your high school react faster than the quick kids in any game you played during gym class? I mean sure they were faster at Quiz Bowl

This feels incoherent to me.

You're arguing that Dex is a better fit, but your examples seem to suggest proficiency at a particular task is what matters, not Dex or Int. If anything, you seem to be saying to decide the initiative stat bonus based on the activity to be performed (make an attack, cast a spell, recall lore, etc.).

Your examples are also weak. Neither participating in a sporting event nor participating in an intellectual event is analogous to rolling for initiative when two hostile groups stumble upon one another.

 

[snickersnax]

This feels incoherent to me.

You're arguing that Dex is a better fit, but your examples seem to suggest proficiency at a particular task is what matters, not Dex or Int. If anything, you seem to be saying to decide the initiative stat bonus based on the activity to be performed (make an attack, cast a spell, recall lore, etc.).

Your examples are also weak. Neither participating in a sporting event nor participating in an intellectual event is analogous to rolling for initiative when two hostile groups stumble upon one another.

Too much cream ale I guess

When I was thinking of gym class activities I was thinking of sports that might mimic combat (i.e. not bowling or golf). Fencing would be a great example, since it is a formalized combat that tracks initiative specifically (who has priority on attack). Many sports would seem to have some type of initiative. American Football - who jumps off the line first - offense has advantage. Wrestling - similar to fencing who shoots for a takedown first. Killer dodgeball - who gets to the ball first. Even simple hand games like red mittens where people ready an action (one to hit the other person's hands and the other to dodge the attack would seem to me to be an initiative based)

Hope those are stronger examples for you. None seem to me to have a strong intelligence component, meaning we don't see the "smart kids" excelling at any of these activities over anyone else.

 

[Ganymede81]

I'm still not convinced.

Take your example of American football: it is thoroughly plausible that some random smart person thrown into the game might size up the situation more quickly at the snap, even though his ensuing actions (running away, screaming, crawling into a ball, etc.) might not be conducive to winning the game.

There's a reason why an American football team's quarterback is generally smarter than the players on the offensive line.

 

[Krachek]

Personally, I feel like Int is the biggest dump stat in 5e...taking the crown from charisma from previous editions. So unless your a wizard or other int based caster, you can go along with an 8 with almost no issues.

Now if you don't feel that way, I completely understand...but this will not be the thread for you.


While I could add in more Int uses to classes, I wanted to start a generic use for Int that everyone would find useful. So I came to the notion of Initiative. Int adding to Initiative is nothing new, its been thrown around in several editions. But it has a lot of advantages:

1) Initiative is universally loved. While some classes love it more than others, everyone appreciates a good Initiative.
2) It doesn't actually add power per say. All Initiative does is allow you to do something you could have already done (go first), just more often. So it fits well with bounded accuracy.
3) Flavorwise it works. The idea that "speed of thought" (Int) and "speed of body" (Dex) would be combined to determine your overall reaction speed has a good flavor foundation.

So I would just add this clause to Initiative.

Initiative: This is a dexterity ability check. In addition, add your intelligence modifier to the result.

I left it as a dex ability check so other abilities (like the Champion's Remarkable Athlete) still work properly.

My main question is, do you think it would make the Wizard too strong? This is going to be a key class feature of an upcoming wizard subclass, so clearly WOTC thinks its useful. Is it too powerful to give int based classes that bonus for free?

In my group Charisma is a dump stat for most classes other than cha based caster. Should we think to add charisma to initiative?
The fighter complain that wizards, bards, rogues has dump strength. He want to add Str to his initiative too!

 

[Fleetwood C. DeVille]

This is a solution in search of a problem. There's always going to be one "worst" stat. We don't need to make combat any more of a cakewalk by having the big brute monsters go slower, and wizards sure as hell don't need any boosts. Add in trickle down effects of fiddling with skills etc... just no lol.

This.

D&D is designed around the approximations and compromises needed to make the game playable. (Hit points, call your office.) Once you start tweaking, justifying, and making things more realistic, you'll end up in Ravenscar.

 

[cmad1977]

I mean... it doesn’t really make sense but whatever works I guess.


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[Stalker0]

In my group Charisma is a dump stat for most classes other than cha based caster. Should we think to add charisma to initiative?
The fighter complain that wizards, bards, rogues has dump strength. He want to add Str to his initiative too!

Oh I do think there are other stats to look at, but I started with int and this looked like a reasonable idea for it.