Houserule Analysis: More HP

Xeviat

Dungeon Mistress, she/her
Heya everyone. Which classes would benefit and who would suffer if I switched all HP to Max HD instead of Average(round up) for players and monsters. I want fights to take longer, because they're over too fast for me.

Obviously, barbarians and the d10ers will get more HP out of the deal. The d6 and d8ers will get less hp.

Classes which rely upon limited use abilities will be weakened. Rogues and fighters will likely do more damage because their power is less reliant upon limited use abilities. Cantrip users will have to fall back on their cantrips more.

What are the consequences of this?


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At first glance, the biggest loser is the assassin rogue. It becomes much harder for Assassinate to take out or cripple one enemy at the start of combat.

Healing resources become tighter. Hit Dice and cure wounds heal proportionately less of a character's hit point total. So the party can push harder and perhaps paint itself into a corner more easily. (Still very forgiving compared to previous editions, though.)
 

If you're just changing the PC's hp, you won't get longer combats unless you add more monsters to the mix. All more PC HP will do is make the game seem a bit "easier," since the monsters will still fall just as fast, they just won't be able to threaten the PC's with death as much. Monsters will drop fast, and PC's will sustain slowly, allowing them to tackle more encounters. It'll also be hard to surprise them with a BIG BOOM - a sudden drop in HP probably won't threaten them with death. They'll take it on the chin and continue plugging forward. Monsters with action-denial become more of a hassle. It could make the adventuring day longer, though, if you're looking to fit more encounters in! Just beware of running out of interesting novas.

Considering this from the other angle, if you just bump monster HP, you'll get longer - and more lethal - combats. More chances of crits and more changes of recharge abilities and more monster actions in general. If PC's have the same HP, they'll be just as - if not more - under pressure as they were before. You might also throw off some spells and abilities that are designed to end encounters early, which might weight the game in favor of "controlling" effects over "damaging" effects. IE, hypnotic pattern becomes a better idea than fireball because hp loss doesn't work as well to even the odds, but action denial works just as well as it always did. And, indeed, action denial becomes better at saving your party's hide than damage does. Grappling trumps sword-swinging.

From the third angle, if you bump everyone's HP, you'll still see that weight toward controlling effects over damaging effects. Action denial becomes more potent the more actions you can deny. The more crits/recharges from monsters will be offset by more HP, but the main thing is that PC's will run out of novas faster. The later in the adventuring day this gets, the more the party is going to be out of "interesting actions."

If your goal is longer combats, a less dramatic way to accomplish that goal might just be to phase in a second encounter after the first. PC's can take two encounters in a row without stopping just fine, and phasing them like this extends one combat, but doesn't make individual monsters stick around for any longer.
 
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The monsters gain a little more than the characters do, by half 1 hit die minus 1 point, as the PC's first hit die is already maxed, but the monster's is not.
 

Off the top of my head:

  • Weapons and damaging abilities/spells now half the effect (in terms of percentage). Before if it was 4 hits to kill a foe it will be 8.
  • Buff/debuff/battlefield control have about the same affect, maybe more because combats are going longer (more use out of a buff/debuff, split combats into smaller combats, etc.)
  • CON does less for total HPs, has about half the effect. (But still has same affect of HD)
  • Difference between the hit dice size is now 2 points be step instead of 1. So before there would be a 3HP/lvl differece between a rogue and a barbarian and now it's 6.
  • Single use effects (many spells, divine smite, ki, etc.) will have more chances to be used so could be the same effectiveness at the cost of a much higher use rate.
 

All PCs in my campaign get max hit points. I don't change the monsters at all.

I do this for a couple of reasons: there are only three players, I run very dangerous to deadly encounters, and I don't allow any caster classes as PCs except the warlock, so there is very little magical healing. Oh, and I don't use most magic items, including healing potions. The only exception is Keightom's Ointment, which provides it's max healing capacity per application.

I figure my players can use all the help they can get.

The result: very tense encounters, with two near-deaths so far (near death=0 HP and making death saves). And two out of the three players say that this is their favorite campaign they've played in (all three of them play in 2-3 other campaigns each).

Just make sure you know how to run the game. You'll be fine.
 
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At first glance, the biggest loser is the assassin rogue. It becomes much harder for Assassinate to take out or cripple one enemy at the start of combat.

Healing resources become tighter. Hit Dice and cure wounds heal proportionately less of a character's hit point total. So the party can push harder and perhaps paint itself into a corner more easily. (Still very forgiving compared to previous editions, though.)

I might be okay with that. I had an assassin rogue take out what was supposed to be the big baddie of a fight in the opening round once, so I cheated and doubled it's HP. As long as a game with an assassin has a suitable number of mooks and lower CR threats, it could still see use.

Healing does prove tighter within a single combat. Aside from this, I have been looking into switching everything over to short-rest recovery, and using some other mechanic for long term HP damage. With the healer feat , healing tends to be pretty easy to come by already. Potions are cheep too.

From the third angle, if you bump everyone's HP, you'll still see that weight toward controlling effects over damaging effects. Action denial becomes more potent the more actions you can deny. The more crits/recharges from monsters will be offset by more HP, but the main thing is that PC's will run out of novas faster. The later in the adventuring day this gets, the more the party is going to be out of "interesting actions."

If your goal is longer combats, a less dramatic way to accomplish that goal might just be to phase in a second encounter after the first. PC's can take two encounters in a row without stopping just fine, and phasing them like this extends one combat, but doesn't make individual monsters stick around for any longer.

Definitely doing this for everyone: PCs, NPCs, and Monsters. I like the idea of reducing novas. I despise novas. The concern of the timer on "interesting actions" is one to watch out for. The only thing that made 4E's long encounters boring was everyone blowing their encounter powers first and having "just at-wills" afterwards.

Phased encounters is an interesting idea, but I can't do that all the time.

The monsters gain a little more than the characters do, by half 1 hit die minus 1 point, as the PC's first hit die is already maxed, but the monster's is not.

Possibly. Monsters have a lot of hit dice, though, and a lot of HP compared to players, so it could still work out in their favor.

Off the top of my head:

  • Weapons and damaging abilities/spells now half the effect (in terms of percentage). Before if it was 4 hits to kill a foe it will be 8.
  • Buff/debuff/battlefield control have about the same affect, maybe more because combats are going longer (more use out of a buff/debuff, split combats into smaller combats, etc.)
  • CON does less for total HPs, has about half the effect. (But still has same affect of HD)
  • Difference between the hit dice size is now 2 points be step instead of 1. So before there would be a 3HP/lvl differece between a rogue and a barbarian and now it's 6.
  • Single use effects (many spells, divine smite, ki, etc.) will have more chances to be used so could be the same effectiveness at the cost of a much higher use rate.

I like the sound of a lot of that, actually. Damage spells (and the damage spell that is the barbarian) have been unclimactically ending our fights as of late. Longer fights do mean more chances to be hit and lose concentration, which could balance buffs. Con having less of a direct effect is good; maybe people will feel that Con 14 is less of a necessity (though I'm sorely tempted to change how con applies to HP anyway). Rogue and Barbarian HP is 8 to 12, assuming same Con (rogues are d8, right?).

Do you really think more rounds offers more opportunities to use ones abilities? That could be an interesting side effect if it works out that way.
 

All PCs in my campaign get max hit points. I don't change the monsters at all.

I do this for a couple of reasons: there are only three players, I run very dangerous to deadly encounters, and I don't allow any caster classes as PCs except the warlock, so there is very little magical healing. Oh, and I don't use most magic items, including healing potions. The only exception is Leighton's Ointment, which provides it's max healing capacity per application.

I figure my players can use all the help they can get.

The result: very tense encounters, with two near-deaths so far (near death=0 HP and making death saves). And two out of the three players say that this is their favorite campaign they've played in (all three of them play in 2-3 other campaigns each).

Just make sure you know how to run the game. You'll be fine.

Very intersting. I've been running 3 to 4 hard to deadly fights in the campaign I've been running. The medium fights were never a threat, and I don't like playing the attrition game. I know attrition is the name of the game in D&D, but I feel like it only works when you're playing Dungeon crawls with time limits or rest restrictions. I'm starting to like narrative rests and longer stretches.
 

Xeviat said:
I like the idea of reducing novas. I despise novas.
This won't necessarily reduce novas (though it might in some cases), it'll just change the kinds of novas that get dropped. Instead of fireballs you'll see hypnotic patterns. The "worst case" scenario (which might not happen depending on your group) is that they use a lot of action-denial / save-or-suck effects that effectively cripple the enemy, and then spend 8 rounds just chopping through HP of creatures that can't effectively challenge them. Hold Person, knocking prone, all that. That's a longer combat, but there's a certain "Well, if we're going to win anyway, why do I need to roll six times to do it?" pitfall that might occur.

Xeviat said:
The only thing that made 4E's long encounters boring was everyone blowing their encounter powers first and having "just at-wills" afterwards.
One trick 13th Age used to dodge this bullet - that I think is very lootable - is the Escalation Die. One thing you could do to nerf most novas is to change them from recharging based on a rest to recharging based on the Escalation Die.

You say you run 3-4 fights, so maybe you plunk down a d6. At the start of the day, nobody has their rest-recharge abilities recharged and the d6 is at 1. At the start of each fight add +1 to the d6. Each time you add 1 to the escalation die, short rest abilities recharge after the fight. When the d6 is 4 or more, your long rest abilities recharge. When you sleep for 8 hours (or whatever), you lose the abilities again.

Might be weird to work into the narrative of the game (I can only cast fireball after I've killed a few goblins!), but there's some meat there, if that's your design goal.
 

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