Houserules for tools

[5ekyu]

To answer a couple of questions:

1. The purpose is to fix the wonkiness between tools and existing skills like, Performance/instruments and medicine/healers kit. So, [MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] in that sense, I'd be trying to make it more West? Streamlined?

2. To shift the proficiency to a skill focus instead of a tool focus. Where the tool is just the a piece of equipment used with a skill, and not the skill itself. Yes, I assume that 'tools are a sign of professional training' but I don't like how it's implemented. The tool itself should just assist the proffession.

So, for Instruments, you wouldn't have a proficiency in an instrument. You'd have Proffession: Musician/Oration/Artist/Actor etc... and you'd choose an instrument. I'd drop Performance all together.

I'd drop Proficiency Healers kit and use Medicine (Proffession Healer), so there's no overlap.

***

I've skimmed XGtE and would probably incorporate some of the uses but, once again, I'd remove tools-as-a-skill.

[MENTION=6919838]5ekyu[/MENTION] Regarding uses, I was just thinking they'd lose a 'charge' on a 1- not every roll. But I like the idea of setbacks better. As you say, less tracking of resources. I'm not specifically trying to make Players track resources...I'm just brainstorming ideas. I just like the idea of needing to occasionally resupply. (rations, ammo etc...). Generally, I don't make players keep track unless they will be away from civilization for a long time and needing to track that stuff becomes part of the challenge to survive. Instead I just tell them to spend a few gold and say they've resupplied.

[MENTION=20564]Blue[/MENTION]


You aren't fond of a straight +2? Maybe, instead, better tools just let you do things more efficiently. Kind of in line with what [MENTION=27385]aco175[/MENTION] is saying. Drop the amount of time it takes to craft or pick a lock or whatever. Outside of adventuring, it lets you do more things with your down time - make more money - craft more stuff. While adventuring, things like picking locks a bit quicker could have a focus if you need to get that door open before the guard comes back - but it's pretty situational.

I just mentioned #3 because I like the idea of training(proficiency) giving you more than a mathematical bonus. It opens options that were not possible before. It's one of the few things I miss from 3.5. But 3.5 focused that rule on knowledge checks (DC 10 being common knowledge and anything higher than that would only be known by people who had skill in the knowledge area) I'm not sure if it's worth finding a way to implement something like that, but I wanted to mention it.

I always treated proficiency with tool as a profession - it seemed to be what the rules indicated. So, if you are just creating a batch of new skills called professions that do what tool proficiencies do, ok. Only drawback is the house rule baggage to reach the same plsce.

"I'd drop Proficiency Healers kit and use Medicine (Proffession Healer), so there's no overlap."

Healers kit is not a tool and has no proficiency. Its adventuring gear and has defined uses.

Whether it's called tools or professions or background skills, many systems have used this same basic mechanic to have one set of (generally speaking) adventuring proficiencies and another set of more background or sort of day job expertise to try and mitigate the drive to get as much as possible of the adventuring stuff at the expense of common sense stuff.

This intent is shown in the custom background as you can get two skills and two tools but not four skills.

If your goal is to de facto roll up tool proficiencies into skills and let tool proficiency slots go into competition with more skill slots in general, that's not an approach I would be taking in my games because i think long run it would lose fun and useful character definitions.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Tools would just be called profession. So anywhere you get a tool, you get the relevant profession instead. You're probably right that It's probably semantics that caught up on. I still dislike how healers kits replace medicine for the most common usage and I dislike how instruments overlap with performance.

In any case, I will read up on the expanded rules for tools in Xanathar's guide and see where it gets me.

 

[5ekyu]

Tools would just be called profession. So anywhere you get a tool, you get the relevant profession instead. You're probably right that It's probably semantics that caught up on. I still dislike how healers kits replace medicine for the most common usage and I dislike how instruments overlap with performance.

In any case, I will read up on the expanded rules for tools in Xanathar's guide and see where it gets me.

if the healer's kit adventuring gear item (not a tool, not a proficiency - so really that is a different subject completely than this) is a problem for your game, remove it - have it not be around and for sale. Maybe have it become a herbalist type of "foraging" to gain the **fresh** ingredients to make 1-6 "poultices" that can be used for this but that only last a day. Either way, the Dc10 skill check for a proficient character is pretty easy to do...

You want to see no rule change needed and almost nobody want to buy healer's kits or if they do rarely use them? use the option in the DMG where a proficient check against an Easy DC10 or less gets an auto-success as long as it doesn't have disadvantage. Then, likely, the only appeal for healer's kit is to give folks who will only ever use it in an emergency the option.

Me? To me the actual important part in play is during the combat someone is spending an action and an element of choice and preparation to stop the further move towards death of their downed compadre - regardless of whether its by healing Word, goodberry chokedown, potion, cure lights, lay-on-hands (by any name), Spare the Dying Cantrip (auto-success), Medicine proficient check (auto-success), healer's kit auto-success or even a non-proficient DC 10 wisdom check. There are so many ways to do that in the game that i see no reason for my knickers to get twisted over one of the many ways a character can be able to take on that dramatic action in combat.

its the moment and the **choices and the preparations** that matters to us, not the flavor of the salvation. I could almost see getting worked up over the non-proficient DC10 check - since that requires no preparation or thought beforehand (as opposed to buying the healers kit and dealing with weight for that rainy day when its needed) but even then - its just one of many different ways to accomplish the same thing.

But to each their own.

Different flavors of ice cream and all that.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

if the healer's kit adventuring gear item (not a tool, not a proficiency - so really that is a different subject completely than this) is a problem for your game, remove it - have it not be around and for sale.

I don't want to remove it. I want to change it.

I know a healing kit isn't a tool or a proficiency. Currently, a healing kit is an item that you can buy which replaces the need for medicine roll. Kind of like how a key replaces the need to roll to pick a lock.

If a character wants to stabilize someone, I feel a person should use Medicine. It's one of the few uses the skill actually has. If you have a healing kit, you get a regular roll and if you don't have one, you roll at disadvantage. And, yes, making the decision to leave a fight to stabilize an ally is more important than the actual 'what did they do to do it' and maybe you can hand-wave a dc 10 roll because of that...but if you only have a +1 to your medicine because you aren't trained, making the decision to stabilize someone could cost you two actions, not just one. Especially if you are forced to roll at disadvantage.

I get it if you don't like that, but this is a brainstorming activity after all, so it's not about trying to convince anyone. I'm trying to pull from different ideas and work out stuff in my own head through discussion.