Houseruling Raise Dead spells

[Elephant]

How common is it that people house-rule the Raise Dead type spells? A friend of mine is starting a campaign soon, and he's making a house rule that only Clerics with the Death domain (which PC clerics may not take) may cast Raise Dead because, according to him, PCs won't take death seriously otherwise.

Personally, I think it's a dumb rule - having your PC die sucks. It would suck even if Raise Dead had no material component. Besides, IME Raises don't even come up very often, so having a special rule to deal with them seems kinda pointless. It's like making a rule that elves don't get their longbow proficiency in a game where no one is playing an elf.

However, I've occasionally seen people complain about the Raise Dead spells, so I'm wondering: Just how common is this type of house rule? How often does Raise Dead actually come up in your games (houseruled or not)? Does it make any actual difference in how people play the game, or is it merely a rule to make the GM feel better?

 

[Cameron]

How common is it that people house-rule the Raise Dead type spells? A friend of mine is starting a campaign soon, and he's making a house rule that only Clerics with the Death domain (which PC clerics may not take) may cast Raise Dead because, according to him, PCs won't take death seriously otherwise.

Personally, I think it's a dumb rule - having your PC die sucks. It would suck even if Raise Dead had no material component. Besides, IME Raises don't even come up very often, so having a special rule to deal with them seems kinda pointless. It's like making a rule that elves don't get their longbow proficiency in a game where no one is playing an elf.

However, I've occasionally seen people complain about the Raise Dead spells, so I'm wondering: Just how common is this type of house rule? How often does Raise Dead actually come up in your games (houseruled or not)? Does it make any actual difference in how people play the game, or is it merely a rule to make the GM feel better?

Depends on setting. In my own homebrew, I disallow Raise Dead type spells except for save or die effects. So, if someone hits you with a Wail of the Banshee and you failed the save, for example, you can be Raised. If you get chopped to bits, frieds, turned to dust, etc., you are perma-dead. I view the save-or-die type effects as a suppression of life, and the Raise Dead spells as the counterspells for them. Reincarnation, of course, is totally out the window. It exists, but you are going to have to wait for a few decades for your friend to come back, and not as himself either...

It does make the players more cautious (sometimes overly-cautious), but you also don't get the whole "I give the cleric my 50k gp worth of diamonds and Geronimo the Tarrasque" thing either

 

[Mouseferatu]

I've house-ruled raise dead (and related spells) in my campaigns for a couple of reasons.

1) I dislike the mechanic of level loss. (Not just here, but under any circumstances.)

2) I understand that losing characters sucks, and I want the option of bringing them back, but I dislike the notion of it being easy and/or predictable.

So what I've done is this:

Raise dead (and related spells) do not bestow a negative level. However, the first time a character is raised by any means, there's a 10% chance of failure. Each subsequent time that same character is raised, by any means, the chance of failure increases by an additional 10%. (20% on the second, 30% on the third, and so forth.) If/when the spell fails, that's it. The soul is irretrievable, the individual is permanently dead, and nothing short of divine intervention (or perhaps a wish) can change that. (IOW, you can't just have someone else try because the first caster failed.)

This keeps the threat of permanent death alive (even if it's only a minor chance, at least to start with), and it places a cap on the number of times a character can be brought back, thus making death more than another condition to be overcome.

So far, we've done this several campaigns (not just those I've run, but others as well), and it's worked out fine.

 

[Nifft]

There are a lot of insta-kill effects flying around in the game. They range from the mundane (coupe-de-grace) to the supernatural (cockatrice, bodak) to spells (phantasmal killer, power word kill).

If your game changes the spells that remove the "dead condition", be sure some attention has been granted to the many things which bestow said condition!

Cheers, -- N

 

[Mouseferatu]

There are a lot of insta-kill effects flying around in the game. They range from the mundane (coupe-de-grace) to the supernatural (cockatrice, bodak) to spells (phantasmal killer, power word kill).

If I ruled the world (or at least 4E), I think I'd turn every insta-death condition into one of the following:

1) -1 HP and dropping, with no chance of stabilization without magic, or

2) Con drain.

Both are nasty effects, but don't force a situation in which a character's life--and a player's fun for the evening--hinge on a single die roll

If such a change were made, I think it would be okay for raise effects to be a lot harder to come by.

 

[Shawn_Kehoe]

I wasn't too impressed with the change from 500 gp to 5000 gp when 3.5 came around - the average peasant earns a silver piece a day, so it would take 25 years for him to afford a 3.0 Raise Dead spell (and that's without living expenses!) So I think the 500 gp rating is fine - it's affordable for adventurers, yes - but not the common folk, so death is a real part of the campaign world.

I'm unsure how to apply the Spell Compendium spell Revivfy to the 3.0 pricing scheme though - since Raise Dead went from 500 to 5000, and Revivfy was 1000 gp in 3.5, it seems like the cost should be lower than that of Raise Dead if I revert to 3.0 pricing.

Another aspect I dislike about Raise Dead is how it handles XP loss. By setting the new XP total to half-way between your current level and the last level, the system favours characters who have just broken into a new level over characters who have almost advanced to the next level. So a character who dies at level 5 (10 000 XP) and is raised is set to 8000 XP, losing 2000 XP. A character who dies at 14, 950 XP, 50 XP shy of level 6, is also set to 8000 XP, losing 6950 XP. My solution is to apply a flat XP penalty per level - the second character would also lose 2000 XP as a level 5 character, and thus doesn't lose a level.

Also, Green Ronin's Advanced Gamemaster's Manual provides a system for "Experience Debt", wherein a raised character does not lose XP from level drains or raise spells, but rather accrues XP debt. Half of all future XP earnings goes to paying down XP debt. I think this system may be a better choice, as it slows advancement but doesn't take experience away from the characters. I'll probably combine it with my fixed XP loss system above - it's more math, sure, but I've gotta put that Bachelor of Engineering degree to use somewhere.

 

[Wik]

Depends on setting. In my own homebrew, I disallow Raise Dead type spells except for save or die effects. So, if someone hits you with a Wail of the Banshee and you failed the save, for example, you can be Raised. If you get chopped to bits, frieds, turned to dust, etc., you are perma-dead. I view the save-or-die type effects as a suppression of life, and the Raise Dead spells as the counterspells for them. Reincarnation, of course, is totally out the window. It exists, but you are going to have to wait for a few decades for your friend to come back, and not as himself either...

It does make the players more cautious (sometimes overly-cautious), but you also don't get the whole "I give the cleric my 50k gp worth of diamonds and Geronimo the Tarrasque" thing either

I like this rule. I might yoink it.


I generally disallow Raise spells, and adopt a "if you die, you die" ruling. Even in our current game, which is played strictly RAW, the players ignore raises. When a PC dies, they just roll up a new one.

Not only do Raises make PC death less "scary", but they also drain a lot of believability out of your fantasy world. I mean, regents need fear no assassin (unless the assassin has some incredibly convoluted plot that involves destroying the king's body somehow, which stretches the imagination, I'd say). I just don't like the impact Raise Dead has on my world, so it gets dropped (along with spells like Teleport, mass communication spells, and even spells which allow flight).

 

[Thurbane]

My current game uses two optional rules from Heroes of Horror:

1st, Raise Dead has a casting time of 1 hour - it's a ritual rather than a spell, essentially.

2nd, I use the Knowledge:Religion check to avoid "coming back wrong". The actual affect of coming back wrong can be as relatively minor as no longer casting a shadow, to coming back as a deathless or undead creature.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I've house-ruled raise dead (and related spells) in my campaigns for a couple of reasons.

1) I dislike the mechanic of level loss. (Not just here, but under any circumstances.)

2) I understand that losing characters sucks, and I want the option of bringing them back,

I house-ruled raise dead and related spells for these reasons too, but my houserule harks back to earlier editions.

Raise dead costs you 2 Con. Resurrection costs you 1 Con. True Resurrection costs 0 Con.

This means that the only thing you have to recalculate is hit points and fort saves, the body gets steadily more frail after numerous raises.

Cheers

 

[Mouseferatu]

I house-ruled raise dead and related spells for these reasons too, but my houserule harks back to earlier editions.

Raise dead costs you 2 Con. Resurrection costs you 1 Con. True Resurrection costs 0 Con.

Hmm...

Did you give any thought to doing 4/2, rather than 2/1? That would keep it in line with other stat modifiers in the game, and would also ensure that everyone raised actually sees a mechanical effect. (Since anyone with an odd Con, and no intention of raising it, doesn't suffer much from a 1-point loss.)

Granted, 4 Con might be way too much, though.

How has it worked for you?