How a DM Kicks Butt and Takes Names - Challenging Gamers - Ideas?

[ZeroEffect]

We're getting together for several game sessions over the holidays and I'm putting together the mother of all adventures. My goal is to challenge and terrify my friends. I'm looking for monsters, tactics, and traps. They're a bunch of highly crafty minmaxers, optimizers, and power gamers. Please post your suggestions and insights. Any help is greatly appreciated.

So far I have:

- physically weak caster-type foes protected by meat shields and melee bodyguards
- golems to exploit immunity to spells and attack types
- foes with immunity to certain energy types (perhaps changeable types)
- some tricks with delayed teleport and delayed blast fireballs
- high level demons such as the Balor (destruction on casters ASAP)
- celerity, timestop, antimagic field, dimensional lock, contingencies (for boss fights)
- mixed encounters of waves of lower level monsters and more powerful boss monsters
- clever traps

I don't want to pull any punches on these guys so don't hold back. Bring your worst!

We're using Pathfinder Beta rules and D&D 3.5 sources. Tactics suggestions don't need to be system specific, though.

 

[Asha'man]

Is this a "Tomb of Horrors" style game? You know "see how far in you can get before you all die?" Or is there an expectation that the adventure will be completed? In the former case, I have a lot of ideas, but in the latter, more of a warning: Character deaths, especially repeated ones or many PCs dying in the same encounter, especially if it's not the "big one" of the session, can really ruin the flow of an adventure and the immersion for everyone taking part. In that case, the illusion of difficulty and challenge is a lot more apropos, because you really want your PCs to succeed and play out the adventure, and so do they.

But if this is to be a gauntlet, focused on tactical and mechanical challenge, perhaps even a bit of a "contest" (careful with that though!) then I think I can help:
- Split up the party, not for extended periods but within an encounter (eg. with wall spells, falling portcullises dividing the battlefield, pit traps feeding into a cave with a monster) to keep them from aiding each other.
-Conversely, always focus fire with the NPCs to take people down one at a time ASAP. gang up with multiple monsters per PC when possible. Rogues and Warlocks are good minions, since they can deal lots of damage for their EL when in groups of min-maxed low-level enemies. They also make plausible servants of demons.
-Use PC tactics against them: Debuff and battlefield control. Spiked chain AOO-trippers (fighter, Knight and Crusader are good classes to use), Ray of Enfeeblement on fighter-types, Enervation on spellcasters, Web, Grease and Solid Fog to restrict movement, esp. when combined with incorporeal monsters (undead?) or ones with Freedom of Movement.
-Monstrous Vermin, Giants or similar monsters in cramped quarters, allowing them to bring their vicious attacks to bear while protecting them from their weakness to range.
-Force the PCs to expend resources simply to get around or attack effectively. Underwater fights, battles in dangerous environments (room on fire or fighting hip-deep in quicksand?) Sprawling, multileveled rooms with flying foes or ones with good defensive spots, so PCs must climb or fly around to get to enemies. (Good place to put traps, like poisoned spikes jutting from the wall by a narrow bridge or pit-traps dropping you back down to the lowest level). Incorporeal or teleporting monsters attacking between rooms that don't directly connect, so PCs have to break through the walls or use their own magic to follow them.
- Use monsters and NPCs that complement each other or monsters with synergistic powers. Vampire assassins can give negative levels that make the save against their death attack, domination or possible poisioned weapons harder. Giant warriors with a Beholder, that covers them with AMF to protect from magic or gives point-support with eye rays when needed. Iron golems heal from fire damage, put them with a Noble Salamander, a dragon or a demon with fire spells.
-Do NOT simply negate the PCs' abilities with gear-destroying monsters, ubitquitous AMF or other such things, that just makes the players mad. Concentrate on making the monsters min-max the use of their own powers, and forcing the players to play smart or die.

 

[Nebulous]

Find a copy of Traps and Treachery 1&2 by Fantasy Flight. I'm sure you can snag it for $5 somewhere or a .pdf. Or Grimtooth's Traps which are slighly more diabolical. Anyway, all three books have good illustrations and description for oodles of magical and mundane traps.

 

[Toben the Many]

If you want to challenge the players and make it really tough...I have found one and one thing alone is supremely challenging for players to handle.

Having the monsters use PC tactics.

For example, have all of the monsters gang up on 1 PC alone, take him down, and then proceed onto the next one. This still works even if you're playing 4e.

Another example, have traps or things about the dungeon which make a lot of noise. Explosions, alarms, or whatever. It's not too hard. Just one fight should be loud enough. When some of the bad guys hear the noise - they start casting buff spells on each other and then go find the PCs. That is way, way nasty.

Have the villains also have plenty of access to Dispel Magics do de-buff the PCs.

 

[roguerouge]

Don't let the PCs sleep.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Don't let the PCs sleep.

That might stop the casters, but if they're really bad-awful min-maxing powergamer boogeymen, half the party will be warforged anyway.

 

[roguerouge]

True, but then you get fun with fatigue and exhaustion effects with those who aren't warforged.