How a ****ing cantrip exterminates an entire school of magic. NO MORE OF THAT!

[Jimlock]

*cracks knuckles*

What if Illusion spells recreated effects from other schools such as conjuration, evocation, transmuatation, enchantment, etc.
Anything from the illusion school which doesn't fit as a replicated effect (I'm looking at invisibility and alike) then put them under a different school such as enchantment.
Then to realize it isn't real it is a DC same as now. If trying to determine through some other measure it isn't real they must pass the save DC all the same. IF this is still too low then make it an opposed caster check.

I guess the short form would be it is thought to be something other than illusion unless the person using detect magic passes the save, even with DM.

check out my OP. I 've listed a few probable houserules... tell me what you think

 

[Dandu]

Your idea of what is broken in this game is very much different from my idea... and quite possibly others as well.

 

[Jimlock]

Sure, but isn't that what forums are about? Difference of opinions?

 

[Dandu]

And listening to others, yes.

 

[Jimlock]

...and I'm listening and replying accordingly, yes.
Listening does not mean I have to agree with whatever I listen too.

What's your point?

As you can see, I'm not the only one who believes there is some "glitch" here.

 

[Dandu]

You listen, but I am not convinced that you hear.

 

[RUMBLETiGER]

I think I'm agreeing with Jimlock, having read through this thread a few times.

The issue is not "In what ways can we use Illusions more complexly, more creatively, with extra precautions or with application of feats to get around Detect Magic".

The issue is not "Can Detect Magic interfere with illusion spells?" The answer seems to be solidly, "yes it can with a noticible amount of them.

The issue appears to be that a level 0 spell can seriously interfere with many spells of significantly higher level, and that seems unballanced, therefore someone who cares about and enjoys the use of Iluusions spells is bothered by this.

...And the rest of this thread has derailed from the OP.

...or so this conversation appears to me. I'm ok with being wrong.

 

[Dandu]

The issue appears to be that a level 0 spell can seriously interfere with many spells of significantly higher level, and that seems unballanced, therefore someone who cares about and enjoys the use of Iluusions spells is bothered by this.

I think the counter argument is "only if you let them analyze something for three rounds, which is not necessarily something they will have the luxury of doing."

 

[Tovec]

I think the counter argument is "only if you let them analyze something for three rounds, which is not necessarily something they will have the luxury of doing."

GAH, they need to change the XP rules so I can salute you again Dandu.

Otherwise, that is EXACTLY the argument.

 

[Jimlock]

You listen, but I am not convinced that you hear.

And I'm not convinced that you understand the extent of the problem, especially for those who like using illusions outside of battle where the 3 round process makes no difference.

I think the counter argument is "only if you let them analyze something for three rounds, which is not necessarily something they will have the luxury of doing."

is that you the DM?

are you giving the same metagame advice Jack has been giving a few pages now?

Cause if you are, ...honestly I find it absolutely useless to answer to that...



Permit me to provide you with a different perspective.

People whine about the enchantment school. They continually claim (especially the optimizers) its an almost useless school, for when people get Mind Blank... or a related ability... or a magical item based on that... the entire enchantment school is useless against them.

I agree that Mind Blank is broken in respect to the enchantment school... and a lot of people agree on that.

Mind Blank is an 8th level spell, and still people complain about how it breaks the game in respect to enchantment.

Detect Magic is a 0 level spell and it still gets to break the game in respect to illusions.

Is the analogy clear now?


A for the argument that Detect Magic takes 3 rounds... I'm kind of tired listening about that... why?

1)Detecting the presence of auras happens in the 1st round.
In A LOT of cases, knowing that there is magic somewhere in the cone is more than enough. Subsequent rounds is just a process that doesn't impede the investigation. No one is in SUCH a hurry when investigating a dungeons, a room, a castle etc etc... those two more rounds are not gonna make the difference.
Moreover, this little info you get on the first round can prove valuable even during combat, even against invisible enemies.


2)A lot of people address the matter, in respect to combat ONLY, hence they start arguing about the 3 round process.
The "Image" line, and all the other spells mentioned in this thread find uses OUTSIDE of combat.
In fact I use, (and know plenty of people who use) "Image" spells more outside of combat than during combat.

So the argument that the "Image" spells are for bringing illusory critters during combat only, therefore detect magic can't do much against it, is pointless...
cause if I was to calculate all uses of the "Image" spells, I'd say that this summoning Illusory critters technique, accounts for less that 5% of what you can do with such a spell overall.