How about a deadline to WotC?

[carmachu]

Yeah , let's make demands and ultimatums to WOTC to use THEIR IP

Yeah..that oughta work

Personally WOTC can take the GSL and stick it whereever it will hurt.

*shrug* They had their chance with it, and dropped the ball at every. step. of. the. way. The way it was handled, then what it looked like when it was released was horrible.

Now they are revising it and its taking way longer then it really should. Persaonlly I hope it takes years more so I can enjoy the 3rd parties that decide to stick with 3.x or pathfinder longer and get good quality produces rather than the crap WOTC has churned out.

 

[carmachu]

WotC may not "care" as much as you do about getting the revised GSL done right away. Don't make the mistake of assuming they don't care at all. It's a pretty simplistic view of business operations to just say "get it done already".

One could point outthe botched first attempted, the missed deadlines prior to the first release, the wording of the first one and make a serious case that no, they really dont care.

Especially when one adds the delay of the revisions.

Saying one cares, even to the fan base is easy. Words are always cheap. Actions, on the other hand, are more telling. And one just has to look at the actions and history, its much more a case they dont really care about the GSL and 3rd parties, then it is to say they care.

 

[Fifth Element]

No it has value because the monsters and NPCs used in the story are crucial to them. Rather the story has a much greater value because of the monsters and NPCs created by TSR (Gary/Mentzer).

Okay, so they're from the TSR era. IIRC, WotC paid $1 million for TSR, which was essentially the rights to D&D.

So WotC invested $1 million for these things. Does that not meet the "HUGE investment" criteria Morrus set out? How much did you pay for them?

 

[Fifth Element]

Words are always cheap. Actions, on the other hand, are more telling.

On this we agree. This thread proves it.

 

[catsclaw227]

Persaonlly I hope it takes years more so I can enjoy the 3rd parties that decide to stick with 3.x or pathfinder longer and get good quality produces rather than the crap WOTC has churned out.

From where I sit, the quality of material WoTC has put out for 4e is pretty darn high. The supplements have been quality and the DDI materials have been well worth the money.

Saying one cares, even to the fan base is easy. Words are always cheap. Actions, on the other hand, are more telling. And one just has to look at the actions and history, its much more a case they dont really care about the GSL and 3rd parties, then it is to say they care.

Funny. Because the 3PP who have had the most to lose almost all say without reservation that WOTC really DOES care about the 3PP. And the gang behind the game all care about D&D in general. But WOTC doesn't want some of what happened with the OGL to happen again, and therefore the answers about how to both allow 3PP to use their IP and simultaneously protect their IP are complicated.

It's easy when you lump it all under "WOTC is teh suxxor", and along the way forget that the PEOPLE behind it really do want D&D to succeed for the hobby's sake and not just for profit's sake.

 

[xechnao]

Funny. Because the 3PP who have had the most to lose almost all say without reservation that WOTC really DOES care about the 3PP.

This is more probably a game of politics. Interesting that you find it funny

And the gang behind the game all care about D&D in general. But WOTC doesn't want some of what happened with the OGL to happen again, and therefore the answers about how to both allow 3PP to use their IP and simultaneously protect their IP are complicated.

It's easy when you lump it all under "WOTC is teh suxxor", and along the way forget that the PEOPLE behind it really do want D&D to succeed for the hobby's sake and not just for profit's sake.

Because Wotc was the one to create OGL first place. Now it is killing it. Who has benefited the most out of the OGL? Wotc or the hobby? IMHO Wotc. But OGL definately did influence the hobby. Now that the hobby is in a situation that Wotc is better without OGL, it kills it. Personally I am not in favor of the OGL. IMO it should not have happened first place. So to this, I think Wotc has its own big share of blame to the eyes of people that think like myself and ironically also to the eyes of people that want to see the OGL continue (the other side of the fence).

 

[Jack99]

Who has benefited the most out of the OGL? Wotc or the hobby? IMHO Wotc.

So what you are saying is that companies like Paizo, Green Ronin, Necromancers Games and gods know how many other companies have gained less than WotC from the OGL?

Seriously, how many of them would even exist if it were not for the OGL? How many of them were a bigger success before they started to use the OGL?

 

[xechnao]

So what you are saying is that companies like Paizo, Green Ronin, Necromancers Games and gods know how many other companies have gained less than WotC from the OGL?

Seriously, how many of them would even exist if it were not for the OGL? How many of them were a bigger success before they started to use the OGL?

Some companies managed to benefit from the OGL. The question is did the OGL expand the hobby or did it ate from possible alternative expansions especially in the long run to the point after the bubble exploded?

 

[carmachu]

From where I sit, the quality of material WoTC has put out for 4e is pretty darn high. The supplements have been quality and the DDI materials have been well worth the money.

Are you kidding? H1 was pretty bad. I'd easily stack any of Paizo's adventures vs any WOTC 4e ones. And WOTC is coming up on the short end of the stick.

Funny. Because the 3PP who have had the most to lose almost all say without reservation that WOTC really DOES care about the 3PP. And the gang behind the game all care about D&D in general. But WOTC doesn't want some of what happened with the OGL to happen again, and therefore the answers about how to both allow 3PP to use their IP and simultaneously protect their IP are complicated.

They really care? Show me. SHow me their caring. Not Scott's words here. Show me their actions.

WOTC's actions show a VERY different picture. THeir constant delay in the GSL orginially, the constant push back, the absoulte hostile license that the GSL was prior to revision and now the delay delay delay of the revision.

That shows alot of caring, right?

It's easy when you lump it all under "WOTC is teh suxxor", and along the way forget that the PEOPLE behind it really do want D&D to succeed for the hobby's sake and not just for profit's sake.

One could say otherwise, for WOTC. And their action shows it.

I put my money where my mouth is. WOTC wishes it this way, they get no money. But I'll gladly give it paizo and others through subscription and otherwise.

 

[Fifth Element]

Because Wotc was the one to create OGL first place. Now it is killing it.

They can't kill the OGL. They've discontinued the STL. Not the same thing.