How about bonus XP for art, journals etc?

[LordEntrails]

As long as the characters are differentiated by player actions, then it's not a problem. As you state, you give the award to all the characters, so I can't see why one player would care if others are doing things off-table that are getting all the characters rewards...?

Its understandable when one or more players don't want to, or can't, put in time outside the game time. But, if another player does and all players are rewarded for it, ... ? Sound fine to me.

 

[5ekyu]

We give inspiration points for this, and they can be spent on other players. So it's a nice little "thanks for contributing" that doesn't have any big long term consequences and my be used to benefit a different PC.

Even if I did still use XP, I'd use inspiration for that reason.

But the other point is that for our group you don't have to put in a ton of effort. A "letter home" may only take 15 minutes to write but be worth just as much as a short story.

Or what about a different approach. If a person puts in a lot of effort (the short story or detailed journal entry) they get an inspiration point and one or more "bonus" inspirations points that must be given away to someone else's PC?

I understand that for a lot of people time is precious and some people simply aren't creative or comfortable writing stories but I still like rewarding those who put in the extra effort.

There are always going to be folks who like creating two tiers - "those who get extra stuff from me cuz i like what they do" and "those who dont".

i personally draw that line when i GM at me the Gm giving that extra stuff as "in-game benefits, control or power" for "out of game effort."

i find that keeps the line between "in-game world stuff" and "IRL" stuff as clear as it is when it comes to say "you annoyed me out of game IRL" wont then lead to "so in game your character cannot do..." type choices or "Jim has been my friend for 30 years so he gets this extra in character..." etc.

But to each their own. My group tends to like the distance/wall between IRL and in-game-world being stronger than some... we tend to avoid heavy reliance/insertion/interruption on mechanics like plot points, momentum points (even inspiration to a degree) and the like where the resolution is significantly impacted by "outside the character traits" pools and such. When we look to resolving a scene, we like it to be mostly or exclusively about in-game, in-character choices and capabilities and not "did Joe bring cupcakes this week? yes? Well hey then, Joe can use his cupcake token for..." kinds of outcomes.

But everybody has their own preferences... I can imagine many great moments on a cold night round the fires in the inn where "and then the cupcakes saved the day..." songs are sung!!!

 

[Oofta]

There are always going to be folks who like creating two tiers - "those who get extra stuff from me cuz i like what they do" and "those who dont".

i personally draw that line when i GM at me the Gm giving that extra stuff as "in-game benefits, control or power" for "out of game effort."

i find that keeps the line between "in-game world stuff" and "IRL" stuff as clear as it is when it comes to say "you annoyed me out of game IRL" wont then lead to "so in game your character cannot do..." type choices or "Jim has been my friend for 30 years so he gets this extra in character..." etc.

But to each their own. My group tends to like the distance/wall between IRL and in-game-world being stronger than some... we tend to avoid heavy reliance/insertion/interruption on mechanics like plot points, momentum points (even inspiration to a degree) and the like where the resolution is significantly impacted by "outside the character traits" pools and such. When we look to resolving a scene, we like it to be mostly or exclusively about in-game, in-character choices and capabilities and not "did Joe bring cupcakes this week? yes? Well hey then, Joe can use his cupcake token for..." kinds of outcomes.

But everybody has their own preferences... I can imagine many great moments on a cold night round the fires in the inn where "and then the cupcakes saved the day..." songs are sung!!!

I get where you're coming from, and as always there is no one true way.

In our case though, the stories are simply supplemental RP opportunities. Filling in holes about what people do in their downtime, giving other people insight to the internal monologue of the PC and so on. There's nothing "real life" about what we reward other than, obviously, the time and effort away from the game table to do the write-up.

On the other hand, cupcakes are always welcome. But cupcakes are their own reward. Sweet, sweet, frosted reward. Dangit! Now I want cupcakes.

 

[5ekyu]

I get where you're coming from, and as always there is no one true way.

In our case though, the stories are simply supplemental RP opportunities. Filling in holes about what people do in their downtime, giving other people insight to the internal monologue of the PC and so on. There's nothing "real life" about what we reward other than, obviously, the time and effort away from the game table to do the write-up.

On the other hand, cupcakes are always welcome. But cupcakes are their own reward. Sweet, sweet, frosted reward. Dangit! Now I want cupcakes.

"other than, obviously, the time and effort "

its maybe me but in my eyes this is the most valuable "currency" one can spend, bar none.

 

[Oofta]

"other than, obviously, the time and effort "

its maybe me but in my eyes this is the most valuable "currency" one can spend, bar none.

I get the resistance to inspiration points as a meta-game tool and waffle on it myself now and then. I've just come to accept that much like karma, inspiration points are magic.

My only point is that if someone enjoys adding to the story, I don't mind rewarding them for their effort in a fashion. I just don't want to do it in a way that has long term lasting effects.

That, and I like cupcakes.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

if everyone is trying to forward the party goals then that character gets better at doing that - which is the epitome of imbalance - maybe not one your group dislikes.

I think the perfect balance discussion is in another thread... and is still unresolved.

Not to mention, a player can spend inspiration by giving it to another player to make the other player better at furthering the party’s goals.

 

[Tallifer]

I consider journals, art, maps and backgrounds to be in-game contributions, not out-of-character/in-real-life/outside-of-the-game stuff. Bringing pizza and beer; dating another player; giving someone a lift to the game; belonging to the same secret fight club: that's outside-of-the-game.

 

[Lanefan]

Oh, the person who complains about rewards for off-table ability...

Which, were I ever in a game where the DM carried out such foolishness, would be me.

...do they not build and advance their character off table?

Absolutely not. Character creation/roll-up is done at the table in front of others, and if advancement requires that much homework there's something wrong with the system.

D&D is a group hobby first and foremost. Rewarding things that promote enjoyment is a good thing.

Yes, but there's a serious problem when out-of-game actions receive in-game rewards. Same as giving xp for bringing pizza.

Xp are a character reward for character actions within the game, reflective of the learning and experience gained by the character in the course of doing what it does. Even using this rationale they're still pretty metagame but this at least applies a veneer over it; taking that rationale away and giving xp for out-of-game stuff makes them completely metagame, and ultimately causes a character's level to not properly reflect what that character has actually done in the game.

Count me as immovably opposed to the idea of xp as any kind of reward for out-of-game activity.

I consider journals, art, maps and backgrounds to be in-game contributions, not out-of-character/in-real-life/outside-of-the-game stuff. Bringing pizza and beer; dating another player; giving someone a lift to the game; belonging to the same secret fight club: that's outside-of-the-game.

This is just hair-splitting. Art and journals and so forth are (usually) great, don't get me wrong; but so are beer and pizza.

That said: at most tables someone does the mapping, someone else does the treasury recording, someone else might keep the group's notes and-or journal; and these can all be rationalized as being done in character. But are they worth in-character xp on their own? 99+% of the time, no.

Lan-"I end up as treasurer in almost every game I ever play in, and would find it jarring were my PC to get xp for my doing this"-efan

 

[Blue]

Yes, but there's a serious problem when out-of-game actions receive in-game rewards. Same as giving xp for bringing pizza.

Very different things.

If I enhance what is being done at the session - say by drawing a character portrait or keeping a record so we can easily reference notes from earlier sessions, that's directly related to play. Or painting up minis because they are good at it.

Just like if the DM has a prop, say an aged scroll or partial "burnt" map. But in this case the person providing it is a player.

Pizza is a nice thing for the players that would be just as nice if we were playing poker. It has nothing to do with the game.

But here, if a table wanted to reward people for snacks, go ahead. I won't tell them they are wrong - it works for them.

And I think that's it - I have no problems with a table playing strictly in-game for XP only. I have no problems with giving it away for any reason. Or not giving it away, for those who want to reduce XP to slow levelling. When I give XP I'm somewhere in the middle - mostly milestone and RP, and don't think it's "BADWRONGFUN" to be any other way that works for your table.

But then again, I've been running my campaign XP-less for over four years, and I've come to realize that levels are just a pacing mechanism. XP gets treated as a reward because it's seen as the gatekeeper to getting new toys, but it's just a granular count leading to the threshold of the level. As long as it feels earned, and everyone sitting around the table is happy with the rate of advancement, it's all good.

 

[Tallifer]

It also depends what the dungeon master and players want from a game. As for me and my friends, we want to see more art, more journals, more maps, more lore; therefore our dungeon masters encourage such through XP. However, this thread is teaching me many interesting (and some even useful for myself) things about different tables' expectations.