D&D General How AD&D Handled 'Attunement': The Magic of the Item Saving Throw Table

[Laurefindel]

3. Conclusion- why blowin' stuff might not have been the best method of magic item control.

Snarf, blowin' stuff is ALWAYS the best solution to EVERY problem. Have you not seen any American movie, like, ever!?!

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

Snarf, blowin' stuff is ALWAYS the best solution to EVERY problem. Have you not seen any American movie, like, ever!?!

FORIGVE ME FOR MY TRANSGRESSION!

Blessed be the works of Michael Bay, and his greatest prophet, Nic Cage!

I will perform the necessary absolution ....

5 slowly walking away from an exploding building without looking back, and
10 shooting things with gun in both hands while doves are flying behind me.

 

[Bacon Bits]

As magic item control, it simply did not work - believe me, I tried.

Yeah, this matches my experience, too. I had one DM attempt to use item saves to deal with having given out more magic than it turns out that he wanted. It didn't work very well. We just avoided combat altogether except when absolutely necessary. And then when we decided it was necessary, we unloaded everything as quickly as possible using every trick we could devise to get the drop on the enemies. If anything, it felt like it forced us to be as abusive as possible.

 

[Quartz]

3E had the Christmas tree problem and the easy way of dealing with it was Disjunction. Anyone who has access to this spell should lead off with it. But we've had that discussion a time or three.

 

[Blue Orange]

10 shooting things with gun in both hands while doves are flying behind me.

The doves belong to John Woo, who is a Hong Kong native, no?

 

[Snarf Zagyg]

The doves belong to John Woo, who is a Hong Kong native, no?

Doves and gun-fu are both Woo hallmarks. But I think I can have some license since another Woo hallmark is directing Nic Cage having his face transplanted with John Travolta, which is the most Nic Cage thing ever.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Magic Item Saving Throws? Actually, they weren't just for magic items, tbh. They were also for mundane items; like seeing if a rope breaks if the PC' climbing it get Fireballed from a hiding orc sorcerer, or even just flaming oil poured down onto them from above.

That said... I use them to this day. I use the table from the Hackmaster 4e DMG, but it's pretty much identical to the one in the DMG pg 80, iir (or around there). Of course, I use them in a "dramatic and reasonable fashion". In other words, if you have potions inside a backpack, the backpack needs to make the save; if it succeeds, no need to roll for anything inside it.

This lead to many an adventurer spending copious coinage to have "reinforced, fire proof, water resistant, acid resistant backpacks" made for them that granted bonuses to it's saves. In 5e, wanna find ways for your PC's to spend all that money they've been hoarding? Bring back Item Saving Throws. Problem solved.

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[Mordhau]

Going by how many 'solutions' we see pop up for magic existing and players getting the have it, and how martials always get to suffer man at the gym syndrome, I wonder how many DMs basically hate Fantasy, but don't want to admit they'd be happier with Historical Fiction / Alternate History / General Otherworld Fiction where no magic or supernatural or over the top action can or is expected to happen or maybe genres where magic is explicitly in NPC hands like Sword and X often is.

I rather think the issue is not GMs 'hating' fantasy, but wanting the game to actually feel like 'fantasy' - that is the type of fantasy they read about in fantasy novels.

D&D doesn't really do fantasy, it does D&D.

 

[Mordhau]

Yeah, this matches my experience, too. I had one DM attempt to use item saves to deal with having given out more magic than it turns out that he wanted. It didn't work very well. We just avoided combat altogether except when absolutely necessary. And then when we decided it was necessary, we unloaded everything as quickly as possible using every trick we could devise to get the drop on the enemies. If anything, it felt like it forced us to be as abusive as possible.

People always complain about the issues caused by abandoning old school solutions to problems...

...while ignoring that most of the time those solutions were abandoned because they basically sucked.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Yeah, this matches my experience, too. I had one DM attempt to use item saves to deal with having given out more magic than it turns out that he wanted. It didn't work very well. We just avoided combat altogether except when absolutely necessary. And then when we decided it was necessary, we unloaded everything as quickly as possible using every trick we could devise to get the drop on the enemies. If anything, it felt like it forced us to be as abusive as possible.

The problem was in trying to "take away stuff" rather than being stingy in the first place.

I'm known as a "Very Stingy DM". I'm not THAT stingy...my players just have a very odd habit of getting so wrapped up into the current narrative/situation/excitement, that when it's over their minds are in a "satiated state". You know, like having an amazing breakfast...then heading out for a nice morning walk; you were so excited and happy about the great breakfast that you completely forget about 2nd Breakfast and even Elevenses! O_O Anyway, they almost always completely forget to LOOT THE BODIES...or even search for treasure. Hell, I've described a couple bags sitting next to a large chest with a small coffer on top of it...and after the battle... "Ok, we won. (heal heal heal). Lets head back out...we're out of healing and got enough info to report" ...then walk out, leaving all the actual treasure!

Anyway, if you are stingy, you can always give out more...and your players will love you for it! Or you can give them what they want, when they want so that they can 'really play the character they want'...and suffer the consequences. With D&D... Less is almost always more, from a DM perspective.

^_^

Paul L. Ming