How bad is an 8 in an ability score?

[Quasqueton]

How bad is 8 in an ability score?

If 10-11 is average (no mod), 12-13 only 'above average' (+1), shouldn't 8-9 be only 'below average' (-1).

In another thread here, some folks are looking at an 8 charisma as:

"an 8 charisma means he has the attitude and demeanor of a big dumb ox."

"an 8 charisma could represent many things - like that man is creepy or he is just different.....All which would lead to negative reactions from people - because different people are bad."

"I have a combat monster (figuratively) who has an 8 charisma. I play him as such. He has no social graces whatsoever. "

"But when he finds a wizard to make him something or enchant something its a given he is going to get screwed. "

"The rest of society is going to see him as a big dumb akward doofus that they expect to trip over things."

"His charisma gives him a -1 modifier. To me that means when he walks into a shop there are two things that automatically run through the merchants mind.
1. A sucker is born every minute and he is one of them.
2. The big doofus is probably going to knock something over and break things."

Now, although the above quotes were referring specifically to charisma, I'm not starting this thread to discuss just charisma. I'm just using the above quotes as a basis for asking how you see an 8 in any ability score.

Does an 8 strength mean puny wimp?

Does an 8 dexterity mean clumsy oaf?

Does 8 constitution mean wheezing and sickly?

Does 8 intelligence mean moron?

Does 8 wisdom mean oblivious?

I had a dwarf cleric who had a 6 in dexterity. Initially there were some comments about tripping and stumbling while walking across the floor, and about zigging in combat when he should zag to avoid attacks. There was mention about he should never go into a china shop.

But I went and compared this score and its modifiers to skill check DCs. With heavy armor, he could easily negotiate most common and moderately difficult terrain by just taking 10. And why would walking through a china shop require a dex check?

And for dodging and weaving in battle, a wooden post is considered to have a 0 dexterity (-5 AC), and it doesn't move at all. So I saw 6 dex as just not quite as responsive physically as a normal dex'ed person. He was much better than an unmoving object (+3 AC compared to a stump), and was definitely not "dodging into" attacks.

Have players of D&D gotten so used to high stats that an 8 in something seems awful? Has 12-14 become the new 'average' in player's/DM's minds now? Do DMs start making PCs roll checks for normal actions just because their ability score is below 10?

It seems to me that the proper adjectives for the ability score levels would be something like:

6-7 low
8-9 below average
10-11 average
12-13 above average
14-15 good
16-17 very good
18-19 great

But from reading and talking with other players and DMs, it seems that most people have shifted this descriptors by a rank or two.

8-9 very low
10-11 low
12-13 average (or comfortable/acceptable)
14-15 above average
16-17 good
18-19 very good, but there's better (20+)

What do you think of an 8 ability score?

Quasqueton

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

What you said, basically.

An 8 is a minor drawback, nothing more. A slight weakness. Everyone ought to have an 8-9 stat, to give their character a little flavor.

I agree with your assessment:

6-7 low
8-9 below average
10-11 average
12-13 above average
14-15 good
16-17 very good
18-19 great


'Course, I like 25-point buy/default array, too, which fits right in with those stat definitions.

 

[EricNoah]

An 8 is a little below average. I think most human beings actually have an 8 Wis.

When I put together character sheets for people who don't regularly play D&D (or RPGs in general), I often use both numbers and words to describe ability scores:

Str 18 - Mighty
Dex 8 - a little Clumsy
Con 12 - Sturdy
Int 10 - Average
Wis 6 - Melrose Place
Cha 14 - Forceful Personality

Stuff like that.

However, doesn't the "default" generation method generate scores that are a smidge higher than the average for 3d6? That might be why people are used to seeing 12-13 as average scores...

 

[BOZ]

actually, for some odd reason, we play 10 Int as moronic, even though it's just average - of course, most people with average intelligence really are just moronic.

 

[Mordane76]

IIRC, in either the PHB or the DMG (or both), 8 is the average for a non-heroic character; therefore, Joe on the Street Commoner has an average of 8 in this stats. The average stat for PCs is 10.

Therefore, if a character had an 8 in a stat, he should be no worse off than a commoner:

8 Str -- he can still work in the fields, which isn't easy, by any means.
8 Dex -- he should be able to manage winding streets and stairs.
8 Con -- he gets sick, just like everyone else does.
8 Int -- While he might know the finer points of xenomorph anatomy, he still knows his name, how to talk, and the important points of his profession. He isn't Forrest Gump, but he's not a high school graduate, either.
8 Wis -- He knows that fire burns, bad things happen at night, and that armed people are dangerous. He knows that politeness is better than being rude.
8 Cha -- He's not Denzel Washington, but he's not Quasimodo, either.

 

[Olgar Shiverstone]

4d6 drop lowest generates a mean of 11.5 vice the 10.5 for 3d6, so certainly that's part of it.

The standard method then produces characters that are slightly better than average, on average.

I guess many players just get used to being a little better-than-average, and consider that average! From that standpoint, then, average is below average and below average is gimped.

Edit: All the monsters in the MM are based on average scores -- basically 10-11 in each stat, plus racial modifiers. In comparison, a PC with the default array (15,14,13,12,10,8, like the NPC tables in the DMG) is pretty well-endowed. Hence my liking for 25 PB/default array -- PCs are well above average without being so powerful that I have to tweak monsters to give them a challenge. But some people can't abide not having high stats on their character sheet (at least one 18, multiples above 15, etc).

 

[zyzzyr]

Well, if you assume that this board is an accurate sample group, then half the people here are average intelligence or lower. =)

 

[The Forsaken One]

Check the site in my sig

 

[Sagan Darkside]

Well, if you assume that this board is an accurate sample group, then half the people here are average intelligence or lower. =)

Only half?

SD

 

[Vaxalon]

An 8 is a handicap for a hero, just " below average" for an ordinary person.