How big is the Blood War?

Joker

First Post
How big is it?
Is it on such a scale that not even the gods can comprehend it?
Will it ever tip in favor of one of the other side?
Which major players have a vested interest in seeing the Blood War continue?
What are some good sources for information about the Blood War?
Can it ever be influenced in any major way?

Discuss and enlighten.
 

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The blood war spans entire planes, spilling over onto other planes as well. I think that the expanse of the blood war makes all other wars insignificant. Entire planes are the battlefields of the Blood War.
The gods completely comprehend the Blood War, IMO. As long as it doesn't spill into their planes, do they even care. Most gods are not involved with the blood war at all, it is a thing for the demon and devil lords, who are part of it and for most of those lords it is all they think about. Although some do not even care about their own would-be allies and serve their own needs, above and beyond the war. The war is a means to an end though, it keeps the minions busy so they do not turn on the masters.
It will never turn too much to one side, they are symbiotic, should one overpower another, they will begin bickering among themselves while seeking their enemy, due to the fact that they are fewer in number. Then they will collapse and the cycle will start anew as it has for eons. It may tip one way or the other from time to time.
The only major players that should be concerned with the outcome of the Blood War are the major demons and devils that serve their masters, most demon and devil lords know that this war has no end, but also understand that without the war they could not control their minions, the war is a tool to the major lords.
There is not a lot of solid information on the Blood War, there was a lot of 2nd edition stuff, wikipedia has an entry for it, there are many demons and devils ion the monster manuals that explain small tidbits, the feindish codex's give a little more input, but as far as solid stuff on the blood war, I don't think there is anything out there yet.
I think the Blood War is always influenced in a major way, guided by beings that care for nothing but power and bloodshed. I don't think any major players outside of the Blood War even care about it, until it spills their way, then it gets rerouted and they forget about it. Beware the ones that make an enemy of both sides in the middle of a conflict, they just might stop to destroy you before continuing their war against each other.
To me the Blood War just represents two sides of evil, the structured lawful side against the insane chaotic side.
 

Blood War=BIG

The Blood War is so incredibly vast that the landings at Normandy in 1944 or the proposed invasion of the Japanese home islands would have been considered small unit actions.

nuff said.
 

HeavenShallBurn said:
The Blood War is so incredibly vast that the landings at Normandy in 1944 or the proposed invasion of the Japanese home islands would have been considered small unit actions.

nuff said.

The Blood War is so vast that the Apocalypse would be considered a simple Beachhead in comparison..
 

Joker said:
How big is it?
The Blood War is big. Really big. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindboggingly big it is. I mean you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to the Blood War.
Is it on such a scale that not even the gods can comprehend it?
The gods are a pretty canny bunch. I imagine they can comprehend it rather exactingly. They can percieve and understand on a scope far beyond what we as mortals can.
Will it ever tip in favor of one of the other side?
Outside of some event of sufficiently cosmic magnitude, no, it won't. That's largely the point.
Which major players have a vested interest in seeing the Blood War continue?
Continue as in to the point of victory of one side over the other: the baatezu and the tanar'ri. Possibly other, related powers or gods.

Continue as in to the point of never finishing, persisting for its own sake indefinitely: the yugoloths, pretty much everyone else in the multiverse because it keeps the forces of evil largely occupied with themselves.
What are some good sources for information about the Blood War?
Planescape material, mostly, and related sages thereof. Planewalker.com and our own beloved Shemmy would be a good place to start.
Can it ever be influenced in any major way?
Theoretically yes, but functionally it's not likely. It'd be a task similar to reshaping the ocean by hand.
 

Enough to warrant THIS (and much, much more):

Hellbound - The Blood War
tsr2621.jpg

Since before mortals drew breath, the cunning baatezu and the fiery tanar'ri have struggled furiously to batter each other out of existence. The prize in their devastating war of annihilation: the Lower Planes. 'Course, when two unstoppable armies of evil collide, the tremors might leave the entire multiverse a smoking ruin. And woe be to any berk who stands against them - or simply gets in their way.

Created for both players and Dungeon Masters, Hellbound: The Blood War is a comprehensive resource on the infernal clash that has torn the planes apart for millennia. Though the war has spilled into many other PLANESCAPE products, the full story of the roaring conflict has never been detailed - until now.

Hellbound features:

* The Dark of the War, an 80-page guide for the Dungeon Master that reveals the secrets of the struggle - its history, strategies, magic, and battlefields.
* The Chant of the War, a 32-page book for DMs and players, detailing the facts that player characters would know about the conflict.
* War Games, a 96-page book of three complete Blood War adventures, including an epic scenario in which PCs can weaken the fiends permanently and forever change the course of the war - not to mention create a brand-new monster in the process.
* Visions of War, a 24-page, full-color booklet of illustrations and maps (scenes and sites in the adventures) to bring the war's horrors alive for players.
* The Bargain, a 16-page, full-color comic book of wartime love and betrayal, painted by DiTerlizzi and Robh Ruppel.
 

Joker said:
How big is it?
Is it on such a scale that not even the gods can comprehend it?
Will it ever tip in favor of one of the other side?
Which major players have a vested interest in seeing the Blood War continue?
What are some good sources for information about the Blood War?
Can it ever be influenced in any major way?

Discuss and enlighten.

Hellbound: The Blood War is a beautiful book/box set, and it'll answer most of your questions.

But to echo what has already been said by others, the Blood War is one of the primary concerns across the entirety of the Outer Planes. Literally every outsider race has a vested interest in its course and any ultimate outcome.

The Tanar'ri and Baatezu slaughter one another by the day in numbers per individual battle that dwarf the population of entire prime material worlds; the Yugoloths hurl their lesser kind into that eternal meatgrinder without a care while their greater kind see themselves as the architects of the War itself; the Slaadi seek Xaos and nothing more but have a limited role largely because they're random and unfocused; the Modrons have an army devoted to aiding the side of Law; the Rilmani seek to keep the War eternally balanced in a perpetual stalemate; and the celestials don't know what to do because they can't agree with one another on how to act and what outcome they want (the Archons and Eladrin cannot fathom a victory by the Tanar'ri or Baatezu respectively, and the Guardinals do their best to make sure this Law/Chaos split among the upper planes doesn't ever mirror that the fiends...).

The celestials haven't had a major role in the Blood War since very early on. The Archons once attempted to fight the fiends, and it ended in such catastrophic and onesided bloodshed that none of the celestials have ever since tried to overtly take part (the archons only presented the fiends with a larger target and made them temporarily ignore one another in favor of them).

Gods don't interfere in the Blood War for the most part, because they're haunted by a similar incident that happened during the early years of the War. The cause is unknown, but one deity was obliterated and every other god taking an active role at the time had their divine essence begin to tatter and fray at the edges, threatening them with the same till they abruptly withdrew their influence. The fiends didn't apparently appreciate deific meddling, though it might have been some base feature of the multiverse itself, or the actions of the eldest fiends, or perhaps the wholesale slaughter of mortal worshippers (on a world spanning scorched earth scale). And frankly, beyond the uncertain nature of that past mystery, outside of that threat of unknown cause, it's an honest threat to many gods to stick their noses in the fiends' business now, because entire worlds have in the past been overrun and reduced to smoking balls of cinders spinning in the void of the prime, and a deity is soon to become prime real estate for githyanki if their worshippers were at the business end of such a spillover.

It can be influenced, if in subtle ways. The Rilmani, the Yugoloths, and even some of the celestials manage to do that, each with their own specific aims and reasons but all of them ultimately keeping the War grinding onwards. As for mortals influencing it... not so easily (though the events of the module 'Squaring the Circle' in the Hellbound box had the potential to do so). Long term or radical change would probably need to be something involving the fiends themselves, or a sudden and major (and cathartic) change in the status quo among the celestials.
 
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How big is it?

Well if you imagine the biggest thing ever, multiplied it 10 to the 10th power, then increased it another 10 billion percent...it's very short of just how damn big this thing is! ;)

Ain't that right Shemmy? ;)
 

i use it as a war so big that if it didnt occupy the forces of evil they would allready rule the universe. Only thier basic hateful nature keeps them killing each other rather then overrunning the universe and smashing the gates of heaven.

Thats part of my justification for the forces of evil to be more then willing to mess up the mortal worlds personally but the celestials only egg on mortals and give scant aid....They are afriad of the bad guys, even though they would never admit it and use mortals as cannon fodder while they buy time and scramble for some balance tipping event to finally give them a chance to win rather then fighting a slowly losing war world by world.

I think the only way mortals could really influence it would be by getting powerful enough to kill off either the top demon princes or devil lords. Since this isnt likely to happen in anything other then a really epic game mortals are pretty much out of thier league in the blood war.
 

boredgremlin said:
i use it as a war so big that if it didnt occupy the forces of evil they would allready rule the universe. Only thier basic hateful nature keeps them killing each other rather then overrunning the universe and smashing the gates of heaven.

Oh don't worry HEAVEN SHALL BURN eventually, we just need to sort out this... minor disagrement.
 

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