How can I make my game more challenging for my players?

[Xune Woe]

I'm currently running a small group (2 players) through a modified version of "Pool of Radience: Attack on Myth Drannor" -- I've changed the plot around, but am using the "Polyandrum" (elven graveyard) region pretty much as-is. My PCs are (1.) A dwarven rogue/fighter lvl 1/2 and (2.) An elven priest lvl 3.

Thing is, they're just ripping through my encounters. Last game session, they were up against the following encounters:

1.) 3x 4th-level warrior skeletons
2.) 36 tiny elven statue constructs (1/3 HD)
3.) 25 normal skeletons
4.) An ambush vs. 1 3rd-lvl fey'ri ranger, 1 3rd-level fey'ri sorcerer, and a 3rd-lvl elven rogue.

I can't understand why my encounters aren't challenging them. I'm using strategy for my NPC/creatures as much as possible. Obviously, with only 2 PCs I don't want to throw super high CR encounters against them, but at this point, it's all I can think of. Either that, or something that will play off their weaknesses.

You guys have any ideas? I'm considering revamping the rest of the adventure and swapping in tougher creatures.

 

[Crothian]

I'm amazed they can take 25 normal skeletons or the 36 tiny guys. With 2 PCs that are only 3rd level the sheer amount of guys should be able to just take them down.

You might not try to challenge them with single battles. If you string together a series of battles that slowly drains their resources (spells, HP, etc) you can still have it be challenging.

 

[Xune Woe]

Well, remember the 25 skeletons were normal and the 3rd-level priest could use turn attempts up to 5x/day. As the skeletons filtered into the room the PCs were defending, the priest stood behind the dwarven fighter and just turned small groups of skeletons as they came in. The dwarven fighter blocked up a staircase and just smashed any that got close enough.

As for the tiny constructs, that was actually a pretty close battle. They simply swarmed the priest (as he set off their "alarm" by tampering with an item in one of the rooms). He was in pretty serious trouble until he realized he could simply run and none of them could get off an AoO against him. Down a bunch of HPs he ran into a nearby room and slammed the door shut.

The little constructs had little or no chance of getting through the door. Once he healed up behind the door, him and the dwarf managed to take them all out. Took a while, but they did it.

It was definitely an interesting battle and revealed that swarm attacks can do a number on even fairly powerful PCs.

 

[gtJormungand]

4.) An ambush vs. 1 3rd-lvl fey'ri ranger, 1 3rd-level fey'ri sorcerer, and a 3rd-lvl elven rogue.

They survived against this? Is there an CR adjustment for fey'ri? That's already at least an EL 6 encounter for a party of four, so either your players are incredibly lucky, have powerful (high-stat) characters, have too much loot, or some combination of those.

With regard to undead turning, remember that the turning effect only lasts for one minute and is limited in the number of hitdice that can be turned at one time. Perhaps you should use slightly beefier (just more hitdice) skeletons or zombies that, while turnable, won't be destroyed.

What might be a simpler way to simply wear them down is to have waves of wimpy skeletons where it would be a waste to turn them, though try not to go overboard, especially in light of the swarming challenge. Also, mixtures of bad guys, like beefier zombies or skeletons and some, say, goblins, would work well, too.

 

[Xune Woe]

Yes, they survived. The 3rd level fey'ri sorcerer had damage resistance 10/+1 and she mainly hovered over the party (flying) while raining down 1st level spells (magic missile, ice dagger, etc.). She was able to escape before the PCs killed her. She actually took no damage during the fight.

However, the fey'ri Ranger and sun elf rogue (both 3rd-lvl) were on the ground fighting the PCs. Unfortunately the two NPCs were supposed to work together concentrating on one PC (flanking, sneak atk, etc.), but they were split apart by the PCs. The ranger took on the dwarf fighter/rogue and just got some really poor atk rolls. I think he hit the dwarf once during the 4 rounds or so combat lasted. The elven rogue went up against the priest PC and scored maybe one hit.

You're right though, the fey'ri have an ECL of +2 (+3 if they have certain racial abilities).

I really thought this would be a tough fight for the PCs, however I guess I can just chalk it up to (1.) Poor atk rolls by the NPCs, (2.) Strategy of two main NPC fighters disrupted (not able to flank opponent PC), (3.) Main dwarf ftr/rogue PC is pretty efficient in combat (high AC, and substantial atk bonuses).

 

[MerakSpielman]

Looks like the NPC rogue forgot to take ranks in Tumble so he could get into a flanking position. I'm presuming, at least, he managed to get one sneak attack in the surprise round, when he was hiding, right? Or that he used Bluff to get the players to lose their Dex bonus to AC?

The trick to playing NPC encounters is to play them as hard-core as if the players were playing them. They have to, like the players, be using every trick at their disposal to kill their opponents and not get killed themselves. Down to and including fleeing when it's obvious they're not going to win, just like PCs should.

 

[Nightchilde-2]

Disease and poison. These two things have made my Eberron campaign a living hell for my PCs and really upped the challenges they've faced as they are suffering worse and worse from the effects of disease (three PCs have Red Ache, 1 PC has mummy rot (2 did have the rot, but one died last session).

One of the PCs is down to 2 Str and Con damage from mummy rot dropped the (now dead) one PC down from 26 hit points to 9. I can't stress how nasty disease has become in this particular game.

 

[The_Gneech]

Don't forget the amazing "Aid Another" tactic. Six skeletons swarm each character; five of them use the Aid Another action to give the sixth one a +10 to hit. It makes mooks a lot more effective!

-The Gneech

 

[jmucchiello]

What are these characters' ability scores? If they are higher than usual, that could explain your problem.

 

[Xune Woe]

I think a couple things may be happening:

1.) My one player is an expert min-maxer. He exploits every possible advantage when creating characters and is just a long-time player so he knows how to put an effective PC together. I don't really fault him for that.

2.) He advises the other player on how to make his PC very efficient.

3.) I make them use a point-buy system for stats, although I'm pretty liberal about it (32-pt pool).

4.) Both players are expert at using the terrain/battle area to their advantage. For example, inside the crypt where they faced a lot of these encounters, they effectively bottle-necked enemies so they'd have to fight one-on-one. Similarly, during the ambush with the fey'ri, they put their back against the outside wall of the crypt to avoid being flanked.

Ultimately, I think they knew there was considerable danger in these encounters and at various points they looked like they were worried for their character's lives. I find it difficult to strike a good balance of challenging the players without creating a TPK situation. At the same time, I don't want them to think it's a total cakewalk either.

I suppose all DMs probably go thru this struggle at various points...