How can WoTC get new players buying Essentials?

[wolfattack]

So,the Essentials core rulebooks are the Heroes of the FL,the DM kit and the Monster's Vault? what's the need of the Rules Compendium then? i assume the combate rules are in the Heroes of the FL.

 

[S'mon]

So,the Essentials core rulebooks are the Heroes of the FL,the DM kit and the Monster's Vault? what's the need of the Rules Compendium then? i assume the combate rules are in the Heroes of the FL.

The Heroes of... books have abbreviated combat rules, enough for players to get started, but not to rules-lawyer. The full combat rules are in the DM's Kit and in the RC, which is designed as a table reference.

Personally I was slightly disappointed that the RC both (a) includes unnecessary fluff and (b) omits some basic crunch such as monster design rules and any magic items.

 

[crazy_cat]

Slight sidetrack. Hypothetically, as an experienced gamer (1e to 3.5, Pathfinder, Cthulhu, WFRP, TRaveller etc) with no experience of 4e what are the best books to get to allow me to play 4e if the fancy takes me?

Is it still the core 3 books or should I go Essentials via the Rules Compendium and the Heroes of book(s)? What would be best to equip myself to play and understand the game and potentially DM occasionally.

No need for fluff as I've got loads from numerous versions of D&D and other RPGs - just looking for the best way to access the rules here.

 

[S'mon]

Slight sidetrack. Hypothetically, as an experienced gamer (1e to 3.5, Pathfinder, Cthulhu, WFRP, TRaveller etc) with no experience of 4e what are the best books to get to allow me to play 4e if the fancy takes me?

Is it still the core 3 books or should I go Essentials via the Rules Compendium and the Heroes of book(s)? What would be best to equip myself to play and understand the game and potentially DM occasionally.

No need for fluff as I've got loads from numerous versions of D&D and other RPGs - just looking for the best way to access the rules here.

Moderately easy choice:
As an experienced player of prior editions, I found Heroes of the... to be vastly, vastly more accessible and easier to use than the 4e PHB. I'd say get Hot Fallen Lands for the basic classes - Fighter Cleric Wizard Thief; get Hot Forgotten Kingdoms if you want to play a Ranger, Druid, Warlock or Paladin.

Very easy choice:
Monster Vault is vastly better than Monster Manual IMO, the monsters are far better designed. Plus hundreds of counters, an adventure, and a two-sided battlemap!

Hard to say:
I don't have the DM's Kit, as I haven't heard it contains anything I personally need. As a player new to 4e though it's probably a better buy than the 4e DMG since it contains magic items and updated design rules - I heard a rumour it doesn't have the monster design rules in it though?! If that's the case, maybe it'd be better to get the DMG + Adventurer's Vault for magic items. Even with the DM's Kit you might still want to pick up AV eventually.

+ Optionally get Rules Compendium for handy table reference. The RC can substitute for DMK/DMG for short term play, and is a good bit cheaper if you're not certain you'll be DMing much.

So: definitely get Monster Vault, I recommend both Heroes of..., and I think you should probably get the DM's Kit but I can't say for certain.

 

[Dice4Hire]

Slight sidetrack. Hypothetically, as an experienced gamer (1e to 3.5, Pathfinder, Cthulhu, WFRP, TRaveller etc) with no experience of 4e what are the best books to get to allow me to play 4e if the fancy takes me?

Is it still the core 3 books or should I go Essentials via the Rules Compendium and the Heroes of book(s)? What would be best to equip myself to play and understand the game and potentially DM occasionally.

No need for fluff as I've got loads from numerous versions of D&D and other RPGs - just looking for the best way to access the rules here.

If you want to dip your toes, go essentials. The two heroes books and the RC and the Monster Vault is all you need. And the Monster Vault is pure gold no matter what side of 4E you are playing. The Rules compendium is also a good book.

If you are used to lots of options (rules options) I think the heroes book will not satisfy you for a long time, but that is when to get into the older 4E books.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

I think they made a mistake in how they named the player books. "Heroes Of X" sounds like an expansion book. They should have called them some variant of "Basic PHB" or some such.

Bingo.

If you want people to think of Essentials' Heroes of... books as entry-level/basic 4Ed books, call 'em 4Ed Basic.

That's Marketing 101.

(You also don't take stuff that belongs in those books and hide them behind your online paywall, IMHO- Marketing 201.)

 

[Beginning of the End]

The Heroes books each have what a player needs to play. Players don't need a Rules Compendium. Heroes of the Fallen Lands is $12.62 on amazon and IMO it makes a great entry point for new players - if they only knew it was the book they should get.

Laying aside the attempted comparison of discounted prices to full cover price, I would make a few points:

(1) I don't think new players actually respond well to the "there are a bunch of rules in some other book that you'll need to buy later" approach.

(2) To a large extent, the "problem" you're trying to fix is that WotC doesn't agree with you.

What does the back cover of Heroes of the Fallen Lands tell you to buy as a player? Heroes of the Fallen Lands, Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdoms, Starter Set, Dice Set, and Rules Compendium.

What does the first page of Heroes of the Fallen Lands tell you to do? Go buy the Starter Set first. Also Heroes of the Forgotten Kingdom is a "companion" to Heroes of the Fallen Lands. (Does that mean I need to buy both Heroes volumes? Possibly.)

What does the second page of Heroes of the Fallen Lands tell you? "The Rules Compendium contains the complete rules. You'll need to refer to that book for all the details on how the game works." (emphasis added)

On page 13 they tell you that you "need a few things to play" (emphasis added): Starter Set, Rules Compendium, and D&D Game Dice (one set for each player).

The next page tells you that both Heroes volumes are "essential elements of the game" for the player.

Page 20 tells you, once again, to go buy the Rules Compendium.

Page 31 has my favorite part: Having told you at the beginning of the book that you should get the Starter Set first, page 31 repeats that suggestion but then immediately tells you to start over from scratch.

Flipping through this book in the bookstore there's absolutely no way for a new player to know that "this is all I need".

Meanwhile, the Rules Compendium itself tells you on the back cover that it's the "complete rules of the game". If I'm looking for the one-and-only book that will tell me everything I need to play, that's the book I'm going to buy (and be disappointed when I get to page 11 and it tells me to buy the Starter Set, Rules Compendium, a dice set, and both Heroes volumes).

If you're coming from the Starter Set, the ad sheet they included explicitly tells you that you need both Heroes volumes, the Rules Compendium, and a dice set to have "everything you need".

WotC took the term "core rulebook" -- a generic term that meant "these are the books you need to buy to play the game" -- and spent two years degrading its usefulness by labeling everything they published as "core". So then they tried to create the term "essentials" to repair that damage... and just made it much, much worse.

I wish they hadn't done that. But now that they have, I don't think there's really a solution beyond scrapping the entire line in 2 years and trying it again.

 

[S'mon]

It wouldn't let me XP Beginning of the End, *sigh*. Anyway just wanted to complain that you're hitting me with empirical evidence and reasoned argument - no fair!

I really don't think most players do need anything beyond one Heroes of... book, a figure and some dice, but I agree WoTC is not presenting it that way.

 

[billd91]

It wouldn't let me XP Beginning of the End, *sigh*. Anyway just wanted to complain that you're hitting me with empirical evidence and reasoned argument - no fair!

I tried to XP him for you, but I couldn't either. Stupid XP limits...

 

[Herremann the Wise]

Hello S'mon and billd91,

I've got your backs.

Isn't it amazing such clarity in the clear light of commonsense and logic. It is hard to believe that someone didn't contemplate all this before soneone pressed the green light.

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise