How Come There Is No "Wish" Spell?

[Psion]

Wishes show up in fantasy stories and folklore, sure. But how often is it something the hero can use regularly? It's usually either plot device, a reward, and/or both.

I prefer the internal consistency of having a source for these effects. Though handwavey plot devices have their place, I prefer to use them sparingly.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I prefer the internal consistency of having a source for these effects. Though handwavey plot devices have their place, I prefer to use them sparingly.

But do you really want to use Wish regularly?

Maybe there just needs to be 9th (3.x) or 30 (4th?) level spell called "Magical Improvisation": Can replicate any spell of 8th (29th) level or lower, create a magical item worth 100.000 gold pieces (Caster Level equal or lower than the caster), or add a +1 inherent bonus to a single ability score.
That's the only thing you really "need" regularly. Anything else is plot device.

 

[Majoru Oakheart]

Yet D+D at its heart is supposed to be first and foremost a game of imagination, which by definition has no boundaries......

Lanefan

There ARE boundaries on imagination though. Some people are not willing to accept certain things.

Plus, the problem is one of a balancing act between game rule balance and imagination. For instance, if what the characters can do is limited ONLY by imagination then you will end up having a group eventually with a no armed no legged human who is deaf and mute and the overlord of all gods in the same group. Neither of which are desirable characters in terms of plot, being able to handle their powers, and making both players feel important in the game.

So instead, you want to establish a base power level for characters in your game. Doing this makes it easier to design encounters blind(even if you have no idea what characters are playing your adventure, you can be assured the encounter won't be too weak or two overpowering), planning non-combat encounters based on the abilities the PCs will have blind(once again, no matter what classes the group has, they should be able to pass the non-combat encounters), player balance and importance, DM expectations, and many other advantages.

The advantages go away as the gap between player power level increases. When one player's special ability at a level is "I get +3 to hit and damage with my weapon" and another's is "I get to do whatever I want as long as the DM allows it", it takes away the advantage almost entirely.

Any spell or ability with too many broad uses unbalances the game. This has been shown by spells like polymorph, shapechange, wish, and to a lesser extent summoning spells and animate dead. Each time the player casts the spell they make a choice, which, when maximized creates an overpowered effect.

 

[Lanefan]

It's funny you say that here, since in the "Buff-Scry-Teleport" thread you indicated that you can't imagine a PC being immersed in lava and surviving. For me, discussions on these boards and playing experience indicates that there are very definite limits to what people can or are willing to imagine, which of course differs between individuals.

Fair enough, and you're right: peoples' imagination-limits differ. That said, I guess my limits are more based in real-world physics (if you're sinking in lava you're gonna burn to a crisp regardless of your h.p. total) while magic (expressed here by the Wish spell) opens up the boundless realms. Thus, if someone cast a Wish that went "I wish I could swim in that lava like it was warm water" and then dove in, I'd have no problem with that whatsoever. I would, however, have a problem if they expected to survive without taking such precautions.

There ARE boundaries on imagination though. Some people are not willing to accept certain things.

Plus, the problem is one of a balancing act between game rule balance and imagination. For instance, if what the characters can do is limited ONLY by imagination then you will end up having a group eventually with a no armed no legged human who is deaf and mute and the overlord of all gods in the same group. Neither of which are desirable characters in terms of plot, being able to handle their powers, and making both players feel important in the game.

To an extent, this is true; but I think I'm willing to accept a bit more imbalance than the 3e-4e design norm provided people are generally having fun.

So instead, you want to establish a base power level for characters in your game. Doing this makes it easier to design encounters blind(even if you have no idea what characters are playing your adventure, you can be assured the encounter won't be too weak or two overpowering), planning non-combat encounters based on the abilities the PCs will have blind(once again, no matter what classes the group has, they should be able to pass the non-combat encounters), player balance and importance, DM expectations, and many other advantages.

Perhaps; though if the encounter *is* too weak or too overpowering I don't really care very much. They'll smoke the weak encounter and go looking for something else, and they'll either run away from the overpowering encounter or die. All I need to do is make sure that (most of the time) there's an escape avenue from the overpowering ones.

Odd that this should come up now, as I've just finished writing a module for 1e that we're playtesting this week; and it has some encounters that are relative pushovers, and others that are the sort of thing that if you're not thinking, you'll die (and a few that even if you are thinking, you might die; this *is* old-school gaming, after all). I wrote the module with no idea what sort of party would play it each time; that's not something I have much control over in any case. But as the writer I've also no clue what sort of outlandish ideas the players will come up with, either to make things easier for themselves or harder.

The advantages go away as the gap between player power level increases. When one player's special ability at a level is "I get +3 to hit and damage with my weapon" and another's is "I get to do whatever I want as long as the DM allows it", it takes away the advantage almost entirely.

Any spell or ability with too many broad uses unbalances the game. This has been shown by spells like polymorph, shapechange, wish, and to a lesser extent summoning spells and animate dead. Each time the player casts the spell they make a choice, which, when maximized creates an overpowered effect.

Other than wish, which I think *should* be able to do some very impressive things, all the spells you mention were broken by design flaws where they're broken at all. Polymorph was broken by giving it "touch" range; it should only be castable on self. Shapechange isn't a problem provided all you can change into are normal non-magical animals. Summoning spells got wrecked by taking away the random element; it's hard to maximize your monsters when you don't know what'll show up, or how many. Animate dead is an excellent spell that never gets cast enough because of the whole "evil" stigma it carries...which of course makes it primo for the enemies to use! And so on.

That said, I'd prefer to see Wish as a spell be something that is higher level than the PCs can cast in the field. If spells in 4e go to 30th level, make Wish 31st...but don't ditch it entirely.

Lanefan