How Come There Is No "Wish" Spell?

[(contact)]

I loved wish in 3.x D&D, and had at one time three characters capable of casting it in a single party. It was a great spell, and one I'll likely house-rule back in to the game.

I think the removal of wish likely has to do with DMs thinking it's a pain in the butt, and developers not being able to put hard and fast boundaries on the spell. The open-endedness of wish means that it runs counter to the miniatures-based tactics game that D&D is evolving into.

I love that they are taking out the fiddly math and information overload that was the 'creeping crud' of high-level play, but I hope there's enough grey area in the ruleset to let my players really take it to my world.

I have great players, and I like to be challenged as a DM. My plotlines or intentions aren't sacred cows to me, they're just cows. If the players manage to sidetrack my Kewl Idea with one of their own? Nobody cries, because we're all eating steaks.

Wish stays in my game.

 

[frankthedm]

I think the removal of wish likely has to do with DMs thinking it's a pain in the butt, and developers not being able to put hard and fast boundaries on the spell. The open-endedness of wish means that it runs counter to the miniatures-based tactics game that D&D is evolving into.

It is more of ""How does a game designer balance one class [or only a few] of many being able to rework reality, but at a great personal cost?" and “How does a game designer balance a game with such a spell considering there is no guarantee there will even be a person capable of casting it in a given party?” The answer they went with was "Remove Wish and use the time to brainstorm & playtest other things everyone can enjoy"

 

[howandwhy99]

It is more of ""How does a game designer balance one class [or only a few] of many being able to rework reality, but at a great personal cost?" and “How does a game designer balance a game with such a spell considering there is no guarantee there will even be a person capable of casting it in a given party?” The answer they went with was "Remove Wish and use the time to brainstorm & playtest other things everyone can enjoy"

I think it comes down to not relying on DMs to balancing the spell in their own games. The rules are just aids to balance it for you. Heck, if you run anything but a standard setting, you're going to need to rebalance the rules to fit (e.g. underwater or aerial-only campaign).

 

[Cor Azer]

That's exactly what I was trying to say. "If you free me, I shall grant you 3 wishes" places a geas on the magical creature in question. You make a request, and it fulfills it - to the extent possible using its own magical powers.

So if someone wishes for riches and it can't create gold, it just steals it from someone. The magical creature itself would obviously have limits to what it could do - which it could spell out the way the Genie did in Aladdin. For instance, creature who lacks "raise dead" would say "no bringing people back to life." On the other hand, if it had necromantic magic, it might neglect to mention that limitation and just bring your beloved back as a zombie.

For instance, if you wish to become "King of X," it might take a while. The genie could arrange for there to be a contest for the princess's hand (by charming the king or the princess), which the genie arranges for the PC to win (by interfering in the contest, buffing the PC, hexing the others, and so on), and then arrange for the king to die. Now you're king, but maybe the princess is a powerful sorceress...or maybe the genie kills the princess and takes her place. Now you're king, but you only stay king until the genie decides it's bored and kills you. This makes it a true instance of "be careful what you wish for." In other words, simple requests (things they can just "magick up") they'll just grant, but if you get too greedy, you invite mischief.

That's how I think it should work.

Boons from the fey have always worked that way. And don't get me started on people who make pacts with devils.

I love those ideas.

As a potential added benefit, you might be able to work in the new social encounter rules (whatever they may be) into the deal.

 

[Baby Samurai]

I disagree. It's a "classic" fantasy spell and power.

Really, I can't think of any magic-user type from any fantasy novel that cast anything like wish.

I agree about wish being in certain folklore (genies etc).

 

[D.Shaffer]

Wishes show up in fantasy stories and folklore, sure. But how often is it something the hero can use regularly? It's usually either plot device, a reward, and/or both. The hero releases the genie from the lamp. The fisherman lets the magical fish out of his net. The creepy old guy gives the couple a monkey's paw. Those are how wishes should be used if you're sticking with fantasy/folklore sources. Not as a power that you can use whenever you feel like paying the XP cost.

 

[(contact)]

It is more of ""How does a game designer balance one class [or only a few] of many being able to rework reality, but at a great personal cost?" and “How does a game designer balance a game with such a spell considering there is no guarantee there will even be a person capable of casting it in a given party?” The answer they went with was "Remove Wish and use the time to brainstorm & playtest other things everyone can enjoy"

I think you just said what I said. If you can't put boundaries on it, you can't "balance" it.

 

[Lanefan]

I think you just said what I said. If you can't put boundaries on it, you can't "balance" it.

Yet D+D at its heart is supposed to be first and foremost a game of imagination, which by definition has no boundaries......

Lanefan

 

[Simia Saturnalia]

Yet D+D at its heart is supposed to be first and foremost a game of imagination, which by definition has no boundaries......

Lanefan

Once, maybe. 3.x, IMO, pushed the boundaries out as far as they could make them go, then solidified them as hard as possible.

 

[shilsen]

Yet D+D at its heart is supposed to be first and foremost a game of imagination, which by definition has no boundaries......

Lanefan

It's funny you say that here, since in the "Buff-Scry-Teleport" thread you indicated that you can't imagine a PC being immersed in lava and surviving. For me, discussions on these boards and playing experience indicates that there are very definite limits to what people can or are willing to imagine, which of course differs between individuals.