Level Up (A5E) How compatible are splat book spells

[Larnievc]

One of the players at my table asserts that the splat book 5e spells are significantly more powerful by level than A5E spells and are as such incompatible.

Anyone with experience in this area?

 

[Morrus]

A spell is a spell is a spell -- they're all compatible. I can't speak to how well balanced the splat book spells you're referring to are, but if they're significantly more powerful than the A5E spells, then they're also significantly more powerful than the PHB spells.

 

[VanguardHero]

Compatible with mechanics does not necessarily mean compatible with balance. WotC at their best wings it and goes "Yeah that sounds cool" as their quality assurance method. Pretty much anything will work, but 'work' doesn't mean it won't undermine the much improved balance in Level Up. In general it's going to vary wildly from spell to spell, I'd suggest looking up any Optimization that's been done with a given spell and see just what shenanigans it can get up to. Furthermore, some that were strong will be reigned in by Level Up'd improved balance design, like Tensor's Transformation feels a lot more tame now that Martials have a definitive identity outside of saying "I Attack" which Tensor's made Casters better at. There's no one size fits all for it, but the Discord and here are pretty active if any stick out as ones you're unsure of.

 

[Ondath]

One of the players at my table asserts that the splat book 5e spells are significantly more powerful by level than A5E spells and are as such incompatible.

Anyone with experience in this area?

Seeing the way A5E changed some oft-cited overpowered spells (making the 8d6 fireball a rarer version of the spell, counterspell allowing you to salvage your action by casting a lower level spell etc.), I think 5E splat spells can either be made into spells with only rare versions (so getting them is treated like getting a unique treasure), or it could be nerfed as needed. I haven't had personal experience porting over such spells, but I think even if you ported the O5E spell directly I doubt it'd completely ruin the game.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

Compatible with mechanics does not necessarily mean compatible with balance.

This. The power level of the spell is going to vary by the design of the spell. Same with all 3rd party content. Some 3rd party companies may have material that fits in seamlessly, some may have over/under-powered content, some may have a mix. That said I've used some 3rd party content in my game (Fateforge, Compendium of Forgotten Secrets, a few others I've found plus some homebrewed stuff) and haven't found the spells to be significantly more powerful.

 

[Micah Sweet]

A spell is a spell is a spell -- they're all compatible. I can't speak to how well balanced the splat book spells you're referring to are, but if they're significantly more powerful than the A5E spells, then they're also significantly more powerful than the PHB spells.

Well, there are a number of A5E spells that are less powerful than their PHB counterparts, but as far as I know there were targeted reasons for those changes.

 

[Micah Sweet]

This. The power level of the spell is going to vary by the design of the spell. Same with all 3rd party content. Some 3rd party companies may have material that fits in seamlessly, some may have over/under-powered content, some may have a mix. That said I've used some 3rd party content in my game (Fateforge, Compendium of Forgotten Secrets, a few others I've found plus some homebrewed stuff) and haven't found the spells to be significantly more powerful.

3rd party game designers are often quite worried about making any content that could be seen as more powerful than 05e, as that reduces the chance that GMs will accept it in their games. I have heard directly from more than one designer. Its a real problem, as it can stifle creativity. One company (not EN Publishing) I used to be quite fond of is close to falling off my radar when their Discord made it clear to me that their obsession with mechanical balance was making their content less interesting and fun.

 

[WarDriveWorley]

3rd party game designers are often quite worried about making any content that could be seen as more powerful than 05e, as that reduces the chance that GMs will accept it in their games. I have heard directly from more than one designer. Its a real problem, as it can stifle creativity. One company (not EN Publishing) I used to be quite fond of is close to falling off my radar when their Discord made it clear to me that their obsession with mechanical balance was making their content less interesting and fun.

I agree with this. Most of the "overpowered" stuff I've found is from individuals (and is closer to homebrewed than official 3PP).

 

[VanguardHero]

I believe it's a good basis to have in general, but o5e is so horrifically unbalanced and without any true baseline that it leaves a huge question of what are they comparing against? A Monk or Barbarian Subclass built using Paladin as a baseline of power to match would both be 'balanced' in a party setting but completely and utterly eclipse any official options which if weighed against that makes it 'overpowered' by virtue of being balanced. Or a new 3rd level blasting spell, did they use Fireball as their benchmark, a spell with 5th level numbers because it was made intentionally overpowered because the designers wanted to reward taking the 'right' spell, or did they use actual 3rd level numbers and just make another option worse than Fireball? What is even the right call to make in that case? It's incredibly hard to balance anything in o5e because the foundation is horribly rotted and useless.

 

[Larnievc]

A spell is a spell is a spell -- they're all compatible. I can't speak to how well balanced the splat book spells you're referring to are, but if they're significantly more powerful than the A5E spells, then they're also significantly more powerful than the PHB spells.

Ah, of course. I was specifically thinking about Tasha’s and Xanathar’s.