How computers have effected D&D

[Nifft]

Anyone remember a program from Electronic Arts called the Adventure Construction Set? I totally got hooked on that, making little games for my own entertainment.

I still make games for my own entertainment.

Cheers, -- N

 

[WayneLigon]

I'm not saying this is good or bad. I'm not attacking 4e. I'm wondering if the change in authorial style over the years is related to the growing pervasivness and influence of computers on our society.

Not really. I think it's more intended to be clear and concise, which I can only applaud. When dealing with sometimes complex rules, clear writing is the best gift you can give your reader.

 

[Henry]

3e gave us a unified rules system.... Rather than intent, rules discussions read like command interpreters.

In 4e it seems like the shift to computer like thinking is total. The PHB reads like an exercise in object oriented programming complete with bolded keywords.

I actually believe with 4e there's been a step BACKWARD, away from precise terminology, rather than further into it; did you ever see those discussions about what "wielding" meant when the PHB was released in June? Further, I see tons of discussion regarding confusion with flavor text on the powers versus how their game text is actually worded. I'm also reminded of the rant by Sean K Reynolds early in the life of 3rd edition over the difference between an "enhancement" and an "enchantment", and how we REALLY shouldn't be trying to interchange the two, because of how each one has a very game-specific meaning.

If anything, in my mind there's been a step back to less precise terminology, less rules-abuse by being overly literal (remember they specifically in the 4e PHB called out that the "bag of rats" business doesn't work with any powers).

Computers have shaped every aspect of our lives -- I watch more television on Hulu.com than I do actually sitting down to the shows' run times, at my convenience. I pay for three quarters of my bills with a "www" instead of of stamped mail. And my gaming, be it Magic the Gathering, Feng Shui, D&D, or Warhammer, has a hefty computer-assist behind prep for each one.

 

[Dirigible]

Dragon #80 (1983), pages 18-21: a complete BASIC computer program written out for you to type into your TRS-80. Some kind of combat automater, I gather.

A long and 'glorious' history of interplay between computers and D&D!

 

[RFisher]

When the game first started it was a couple of guys in an old house writing pamphlets full of rules in ways that had really never been done before. Now games are designed by people who have actual "game designer" titles designing rules with knowledge of what works, what hasn't worked, and what their fan base wants.

I beg to differ. Gygax, Arneson, Miller, Chadwick. These guys were game designers. They all had published games before they wrote any role-playing games. When they wrote role-playing games, they didn’t just blindly repeat the wargames rules they’d written before. They adjusted to the scale and the scope of the game as any good designer would do.

There were definitely some early RPG designers who didn’t get the difference between an RPG and a wargame to provide a counter-example.

I’m not saying they or their designs were perfect. Not at all. But they were professional game designers.

And a lot of the RPG designers today seem to show a frighteningly poor understanding of the craft’s history. Though there are some bright stars.

 

[Mallus]

P.S: For the love of bits stop telling me about the early days of computing, I remember using an Apple Pet (with 4k memory!) for god's sake.

Isn't that Commodore Pet, son?

 

[Umbran]

I
While clear writing and good flavor text ensured that intent of the system was always clear

No offense intended to you, but I say Ha!. And again, Ha! I don't think the intent has been nearly as clear as you make it out to be.

Have computers brought about a shift in the way we think about games?

Your argument is based on correlation in time, but that does not imply causation.

The overwhelming majority of may gaming groups have been made up of non-programmer people who don't read messageboards. I really don't believe how they think of games have been strongly influenced by computers. While a lot of gamers-geeks are computer programmers, I have no reason to believe they are the majority of the gaming population.

 

[knightofround]

I would agree that computing has had a strong influence on D&D's development. But after thinking about it, I don't think its unique to RPGs. I mean, compare "old fashioned Risk" to the new variants today. Or the Alpha/Beta set of M:TG to modern releases. Or final fantasy twelve to final fantasy five.

 

[Glyfair]

One thing I noticed in 3E was that so many RPGs were written with a lack of consideration of computers. When a new book would come out they would create a new game sub-system that would mean that a program like PCGen or Etools would have to be written from a very base level to be able to accommodate that rules set. From someone who used a character generator program it was very frustrating to have to wait for a very long development cycle to have the ability to use that rules set in a character generator.

I decided that when a character generator is likely to be a popular tool for your RPG your designers should take that into account when designing supplements. That should try to avoid new systems that are so different from the old that the program needs a massive overhaul to be able to handle it.

Not only would this make character generators more useful for players & DMs, but it also would lead to a stronger game. There suddenly wouldn't be parts of the game that would seem alien to the rest of the system.

 

[Andor]

I don't think 4e's divorce between crunch and fluff is following the general trend of game design. There have always been extremely precise rules sets like RQ. Further the general trend in gaming seems (to me) to be away from rigid rule sets and towards loose 'fluffcentric' systems like Amber and the new Heroquest.

I think the fights over things like the meaning of terms like 'wield' is a direct result of a plain language programing approach to writing which was sloppy enough that it failed to define key terms. It's only when you try to parse rules in a machine like way that a term as simple as 'wield' becomes ambiguous.

Isn't that Commodore Pet, son?

Apparently so. *blush* In my defense it was 30 years ago.

Anyone remember a program from Electronic Arts called the Adventure Construction Set? I totally got hooked on that, making little games for my own entertainment.

I still make games for my own entertainment.

Cheers, -- N

Yes. I thought that was the coolest program ever. I still have some goodwill for EA leftover from that game.