People control art all the time. And protest is one of the more frequent methods to control art. I think people have a right to protest because that too is free expression, but if you are calling for art to be changed, stopped, censored, not published because you find it terrible, I think you are part of a process that can stop art or make it less accessible to people.
Some time ago, I was reading a story on a forum, and the co-author was writing a side fiction. In this side fiction an old british soldier/spy showed up, styled all over the former slave/repressed minority who was running a new government division, and then started solving the problems of the foreign nation he was in. A fellow reader pointed out that that was... kind of messed up? Like, having a British person showing up minorities by ignoring the laws of the foreign land and solving their problems for them REALLY reminded this reader of all the imperialism britain did, especially since this old man was old enough to have been alive at the time of that imperialism.
The co-author broke down, said that their work was worthless, that they didn't know why they thought they could write anything, and then flipped on a dime and called the reader who pointed out the negative trope in their story a vicious troll who was just trying to tear them down.
My response? As a fellow writer?
If a single person's criticism of a legitimate problematic trope is enough to get you to stop making art, then you need to stop, because you don't have the will to keep making art. Because, guess what? There was a Trans activist recently who made content with Budweiser, and was the response from their critics a pointed comment? No, actually one of their critics pulled out a semi-automatic rifle and emptied a magazine into the product. Black Jazz artists recieved death threats, and were MURDERED for their art.... and Jazz still exists.
Yes, if I see something in a product that I don't like and see as a legitimate thing to protest, I'll protest it. And I'm not going to care one iota if it might maybe make some artist question themselves, because if they don't question themselves there was no point in the telling them what I saw as a problem. And since the other side is more than willing to threaten death and violence to shut up artists they don't like? I think the artists whom I'm saying "hey, you should do better" can suck it up.
No music is going to be stopped by a mild criticism like it is derivative and uninspired. But if a musician earnestly tries to write a song about a racial topic, and lets say they are coming at it from a good angle, but it gets misperceived and people protest saying its racist...if that gains traction it could ruin the persons career, it could get it taken off the radio. I still remember the protests of the piss christ. I am religious. But I understood he had a right to express himself that way, and that he was making a point all the critics didn't seem to understand. The photograph I believe is still on display so it wasn't stopped by the protests but the artist received death threats, lost grant money, etc.
Exactly, in the face of death threats the art wasn't stopped. So mild criticism and pointing out problems should not irreparably damage art for all time and space. And if an artist really is coming at it from a good angle, then people are going to notice and hear that message. But they might also have thought it was a good angle... and been wrong. And what do you propose we do about that? Just let them go forward in ignorance that they got it wrong?
The most useless criticism you can ever receive is "this is fine". Because that means you cannot change to make it good, because you don't know what the problem is. And an artist who can't take earnest criticism, isn't worth my time to care about. Not when there are artists who face literal secret police from their home countries trying to murder them, and those people keep doing art. A mild comment about how an artist should try and improve their message is nothing compared to that.
Again, a lot of these tropes, not everyone agrees they are problematic or tired. Many people find them useful, resonant, and misunderstood. I don't think a half elf is the problem people are making it out to be. I suspect lots of people agree with me on that. Same with slavery in dark sun, or killing monsters and taking their stuff, and evil orcs.
And you are free to disagree. But slavery has been done to death, especially in DnD. The mixed race person being outcast from society has been done to death. Seriously, it is rare for me to see a piece of media that presents someone as mixed race but accepted by both communities. Doesn't that story exist and deserve to be explored? Why can't that be the default, it is what we would prefer the world to be, right? So why is presenting THAT story a problem? Why can THAT art not be shown?
The core of D&D is going into dungeons and into wilderness, facing monsters, often killing them, and taking their treasure. There are all other kinds of campaign structures, but that is the drum, bass and guitar of D&D. The game is less effective when you take that away and I think the lens through which you have to read D&D in order to see that as somehow promoting colonialism is extremely byzantine and academic. Something can be connected to the literature that comes from a historical period, but have lost any of its relevance to that. No one is playing D&D and thinking it made Colonialism okay, or that it would be a good idea to colonize or to ignore the history of colonialism.
The game is not less effective when you take that away. I should know, because I have never made a single DnD campaign that focused on going into the wilderness and killing the native population solely to steal their treasure. Game works just fine.
Because, you know, it is a very different thing to go into the wilderness and find a city of monsters, with stone walls, metal tools and thriving communities. Suddenly, players don't want to just kill them and steal from them, because they recognize that would be wrong. But if you have them encounter a tribe of 30 people, in leather tents, with stone tools, suddenly it seems okay to murder them and take anything that isn't nailed down.
But, here are just a few campaigns I've been in, that didn't follow these tropes.
- Players are hired by a kingdom to go out into the no-man's land between two warring kingdoms and discover the cause of a curse of undeath plaguing the area.
- Players travel to a rediscovered border city, deep in the wilderness, where they are attacked by Fey forces. It turns out that the Fey had a deal with the owners of the city hundreds of years before, and are trying to turn the deal to their favor by driving people away before the solstice.
- A hundred years ago the Evil Overlord won and took over the world. He now fights the Gods to make himself the true ruler of all existence. You live in his empire. Good luck.
- The modern world shifted, you are the post-apocalyptic survivors in a magical wasteland that used to be New York
- You are adventurers, seeking gold and glory, so far our biggest combat have been against undead in a shrine to a battle. We also did odd jobs around town to kill beasts.
- You have left your home to find your fortune and build a community. Traveling through the wilderness in a growing caravan of merchants, traders, and followers who are seeking an unclaimed land. Have yet to fight anyone for the purpose of stealing their stuff.
- You travel down into a deep dungeon, attempting to unlock the mysteries of it, especially as it contains multiple cities within its depths (never fought and killed anyone to take their stuff)
- You are freedom fighters opposing the psychic tyranny of the Chosen of Sarlona.
All of these games were great. Not a single one involved killing native people and taking their stuff. Just, didn't happen. So, once more, your claim is false. The game is not less effective when this trope is not explored. In fact, a game that was solely treasure seeking is often the most boring game I can find, because I don't value money enough to kill people solely to get rich. Most PCs START fabulously wealthy, so the idea that I have some massive need to go out and make money by murdering people and taking their valuables is nonsense to me.
To be clear there have been posters asking for slavery to not even be in the game. If you are saying there is simply too much, fair enough. That is a whole other discussion. But the Dark Sun thread was predicated on the idea that elements like slavery were simply not tenable in a current day D&D setting
Okay. So some people want it removed entirely. I am fine with a little, because it makes sense for Mindflayers, due to their nature. Are people not allowed to express different opinions? Do you think that because some people want it removed entirely that somehow all art will be destroyed for all time because some people want slavery out of the game?
Again, I am not saying these waves of restrictions couldn't be (I specifically mentioned how Bride of Frankenstein, a gay themed film, was impacted by the Hays code). My point was that the restrictive efforts can be about all kinds of things considered a moral good at the time.
Right, but you keep painting with the a massively broad brush. You might as well say that the people protesting to allow women to vote are morally the same and identical to people protesting to prevent african americans from voting. Sure, both were protesting about voting rights, and both were doing what they thought were right, but one side we still agree with and the other we don't.
Not all restrictions are made equally. Yet you want us to not differentiate between them in your posts.
There isn't one. I think Tarantino was right when he said we are living through the 80s part II (where he basically meant political correctness and things like PMRC),except we are doing it to ourselves. But wherever this power resides, it is resulting in WOTC saying they can't do Dark Sun, that it just wouldn't be possible because the content is too stepped in 'bad tropes'.
So artists and companies aren't allowed to make their own decisions, based on their own morals? WoTC deciding that they see too many bad tropes in the setting isn't allowed and we should FORCE them to make it? Despite them not wanting to?
And trust me, since I've seen literal neo-nazis screaming expletives and chanting death threats to children within the past year, I don't think we are in a time of "political correctness run amok".
Okay but people want Dark Sun, not dark sun like. I am sure plenty of these games are great. But Dark Sun is a beloved D&D setting and I think it is ashame they won't even consider doing it, and if they do, it is going to have to have all of these elements stripped out.
Sorry about your luck. We can't force them to make a product they don't want to make. Feel free to keep adovcating for it, but it might have gone the way of Mystare, Birthright, Kar-Tur and dozens of other settings that are no longer being supported. And if you will accept no substitutes, then just use your books and make your own. Or wait til someone else makes a version of it you can buy as a 3pp supplement. But just like I never got more Legend of the Dragoon, or any of a hundred other properties I wish people would make more of, sometimes you are just not going to get what you want.
I would say they are very similar. Like I said they aren't identical. But you don't see the similarity because you are examining things soley through this lens of equity and bad tropes. Fundamentally it is about taking something subjective like art, and trying to apply a very rigid and objective moral standard to it. Again, look at all the tropes people are saying we really shouldn't be doing any more. These aren't isnignificant and there is a lot of dispute over what they mean and if they are bad. I think it is really hard to deny with a serious face that creatives in the industry aren't being constrained by all this. And granted it isn't coming from a committee, but efforts to stop and change art can come from protests too. Which I think is what we have in the present moment. That is why I frequently mention the piss christ as an example
Yes, I can seriously argue this. Because the people are complaining are complaining that people say their work isn't good. Meanwhile, we have creatives whose very existence is a crime in their home country, and yet those people seem to be able to keep making art.
Remember the band Pussy Riot? They were stopped by the Russian government and thrown in jail, because they were seen as enemies of the state. How does that compare with a multi-billion dollar company being told "hey, can you stop using this racist language to describe this group of people?" How many musicians were attacked and beaten by police back during the 60's through the 80's? Has anyone stormed the offices of Hasbro to beat them with clubs for breaking moral standards?
And the stance isn't rigid. Because we aren't talking about all media, or all instances of the media. We are talking about this one thing, in this one way, and how we would prefer it to be. You keep trying to make it out like these are the same thing, and they aren't.