D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Minigiant]

No. Those were the rules. The rules directed the DM to track alignment deviations and do those things.

Indeed.

1e and early 2e had exceptions to the rule. However you were not really supposed to be one. Classes, races, and monsters were supposed to run on the archetypes they were based on. Exceptions existed but were supposed to be rare "Hmm interesting" or gotcha moments.

 

[Maxperson]

Old school alignment was more like a sports team. Good for a video game faction system maybe. By 2E we already had fuzzy alignment like "Chaotic neutral (evil)", and even the outer planes reflect that granular spectrum, and the whole beliefing a town into a new plane thing could be done by preaching new ideas.

1e had alignments like "Chaotic neutral (evil)" as well.

 

[Maxperson]

D&D Orcs are always defaulted as Barbarian. Whereas Elves are promoted has having High, Dark,and Druidic options and given more as there are 15 types of elves.

The question becomes why are all orcs stuck with Barbarian by default but Elves and Humans are supported with every option?

Which edition causes all orcs to be stuck with Barbarian? I don't recall that one, though I didn't play 4th so maybe you are referring to that one.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Sure, dwarves can send an envoy to inform the orcs that they need to vacate the area in a give time or else...

"Dear Orcs, we know you haven't done anything, but your great-great grandfather's took this land from us. Vacate, or be exterminated" Yeah, that is OBVIOUSLY going to go well. Because we all know people who were born and raised in a land are always incredibly eager to accommodate hundred year old claims to the land from others

And why not?
FR can have rampaging, evil, pillaging orcs as default.
Eberron can be something else
Some other setting the orcs can be the dominant race that cares for the realm and humans are invading through portals and taking more and more land.

Why Not? Because it is simplistic and derivative. Because it plays directly into harmful stereotypes of "Savage nomadic raiders" that have been used to justify violence for millenia. Because we can craft far more interesting stories than "here are a people who have no culture beyond kill and pillage others"

The thing is, we keep getting told "but other settings can be different" but they aren't. They always follow the baseline. Now, for the first time, that might start changing, because we are changing the default, and people want to drag us back to the same old same old.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I do.

Cool.

Which setting? And why are you forced? I'm missing something here.
Are you talking about FG, orcs specifically, general monster history, something else?
I need the answer to the above to understand your request (the rest of your email).

The default setting. The one that is the template for every other setting. The setting where the dwarves live in clans in the mountains and elves have their magical cities in the forests.

And it isn't orcs specifically, but it isn't every single monster either. Mostly it is just the humanoid monsters. Very very very few of them are even decently written. They overlap, follow the same tropes over and over again of primitivism, savagery, low-intelligence. It is so oft repeated that it is almost impossible to work with a large number of them.

 

[Minigiant]

Which edition causes all orcs to be stuck with Barbarian? I don't recall that one, though I didn't play 4th so maybe you are referring to that one.

The discussion was one culture
Barbarian culture.

The only culture orcs get in default D&D is as Barbarian.

Whereas elves get

• Barbarian: Wild Elf
• High: High Elf
• Dark: Drow
• Mystic: Eladrin/Grey elf
• "Druidic: Wood Elf
• Shadow: Shadar Kai/Shadow Elf
• Nautical: Sea Elf

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

Racism is a story tool that ppl (like me) don't want to see discarded or left out the tool box.

Your question sets up a gotcha moment that implies that racism needs to be in every storyline.

Can you see the difference? My upthread post with the racism tool is important for those stories but it would likely not be important say on a Minrothadan Merchant Prince expedition (sea voyage charting new lands) or seeking an audience with the stone giant thane to request use of her conch of teleportation in Storm King's Thunder.

Racism is a story tool that does not need to be showcased in the core rules because it can be disturbing to a growing community that is more and more considering it unacceptable. We don't need species v. species hate as a baseline. Hate between ideals and nations and rivalries makes sense, but we don't ever have to paint an entire humanoid species as racist.

Racism is a known concept that people can already opt into using if it is important for their home games. People who want to play Dark Sun can use the old sourcebooks (available on DMs Guild if they don't have physical copies).

 

[Frozen_Heart]

The thing is, we keep getting told "but other settings can be different" but they aren't. They always follow the baseline.

Eberron and Wildmount orcs don't follow the baseline. Both of them have orcs as good guys.

 

[Maxperson]

The discussion was one culture
Barbarian culture.

The only culture orcs get in default D&D is as Barbarian.

Whereas elves get

• Barbarian: Wild Elf
• High: High Elf
• Dark: Drow
• Mystic: Eladrin/Grey elf
• "Druidic: Wood Elf
• Shadow: Shadar Kai/Shadow Elf
• Nautical: Sea Elf

Orcs have had more than one culture since 1e. Below is from 1e Greyhawk. Emphasis mine.

Only Iuz, The Horned Society, and portions of the Great Kingdom allow the more civilized humanoids to dwell amongst the humanfolk, at least to any large scale. The large free cities are also known to allow various sorts of humanoids free access to their precincts."

The Pomarj, ruled by humanoids has multiple cities, including a port. The Bone March, also run by humanoids has multiple cities as well.

Greyhawk was the default setting for the creator of the game, and orcs were not limited to barbarian there.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

And it isn't orcs specifically, but it isn't every single monster either. Mostly it is just the humanoid monsters. Very very very few of them are even decently written. They overlap, follow the same tropes over and over again of primitivism, savagery, low-intelligence. It is so oft repeated that it is almost impossible to work with a large number of them.

Ok, how would you go about writing an Int 7 enemy type for the monster manual. Considering Int 6 is apes, and Int 8 is the lower bounds for player characters using standard array or point buy.

Are Int 7 bad guys just not allowed anymore?