D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[Incenjucar]

And you had us setting a baseline for learning abc's for with toddlers.

Unreal.

12 years old is still pretty young to be dealing with an entire group of people being subjected to racism across the multiverse.

And frankly 21 is too old to accept anything that absurd.

 

[Mirrorrorrim]

This isn't normalizing racism though. This very much strikes me as hyperbole (and again it is very misleading to simply characterize the opinion as that because while you might feel defending bigotry between elves and dwarves in the core is an attempt to justify normalizing bigotry, I think it is very much the case that most people wouldn't assume that is what you are talking about at all when you say that.

Of course it is. If the core book says that elves and dwarves are bigots and are still "good" aligned, what does that tell a kid playing the game for the first time. They may well play an old-school racist elf or dwarf. That is normalizing it for them.

 

[Scribe]

12 years old is still pretty young to be dealing with an entire group of people being subjected to racism across the multiverse.

And frankly 21 is too old to accept anything that absurd.

Do you need me to cut and paste the line of logic where you said the baseline may as well be what is acceptable to toddlers?

I struggle to think of an acceptable term to describe the kind of game I envision would be appropriate for TODDLERS, but I know its not one I'm interested in.

 

[Incenjucar]

Do you need me to cut and paste the line of logic where you said the baseline may as well be what is acceptable to toddlers?

I struggle to think of an acceptable term to describe the kind of game I envision would be appropriate for TODDLERS, but I know its not one I'm interested in.

"Acceptable to toddlers" vs. "Acceptable to people who really need racism in their fantasy".

I'll take the toddler standard, thanks.

 

[Scribe]

"Acceptable to toddlers" vs. "Acceptable to people who really need racism in their fantasy".

I'll take the toddler standard, thanks.

I'm thinking thats a false dichotomy but I'll leave you all to this productive discussion.

 

[Guest 85555]

Of course it is. If the core book says that elves and dwarves are bigots and are still "good" aligned, what does that tell a kid playing the game for the first time. They may well play an old-school racist elf or dwarf. That is normalizing it for them.

I don't think any child is going to walk away with that conclusion at all. I grew up with dwarves and elves having misgivings towards one another and it never occurred to me that they were saying racism was good or normal. It never impacted how I saw people in the real world.

 

[Irlo]

@Bedrockgames
I’m glad you’re still with us.

Online harassment and bullying is real, and it has real effects on real people.

 

[Incenjucar]

I'm thinking thats a false dichotomy but I'll leave you all to this productive discussion.

A false dichotomy would mean there is a standard for toddlers who really need racism in their fantasy. These terms have meanings.

 

[Yaarel]

This isn't normalizing racism though. ... elves and dwarves

But one can see how overt racism between "elves and dwarves" perpetuates racist ways of things into the reallife future generations.

One is literally "roleplaying" a racist, psychologically modeling the behaviors, learning and practicing how to be a racist.

D&D is a playful safe space. One can explore taboo subjects in a play space, like a criminal Rogue or worse, depending on a particular gaming table.

Still, I find it difficult to see how perpetuating a fantasy racist culture as part of a core experience that every D&D player everywhere must engage in, is of any benefit to the D&D game or the WotC corporation.

Moreover we can see how the earlier editions of D&D that did encourage racism − depicted racisms that were not so far away from actual reallife racisms, whether black skin being assumed to signify Evil, Orcs explicitly belittling reallife ethnicities, the representation of slaves as being void of any human dignity or presence, and much more.

These fantasy racisms lack merit.

 

[Scribe]

A false dichotomy would mean there is a standard for toddlers who really need racism in their fantasy. These terms have meanings.

Its 2023, terms mean whatever the hell we want these days.