D&D (2024) How did I miss this about the Half races/ancestries

[AnotherGuy]

They have different abilities which lead to different experiences. Are trees just a reskin of flowers?

Right so they are classes which is what I said upthread.

Edit: Here is my orc he is different from elves because he is strong (class) and has tusks (skin).

 

[Chaosmancer]

And you had us setting a baseline for learning abc's for with toddlers.

Unreal.

No. The claim was that this is a brand that has products for toddlers, and therefore it should be more family friendly. People then said "Wait what!?"

They were then shown books for toddlers, that follow the Dnd brand.

And we were then asked "so what, our baseline should be safe for kids? That's dumb"

To which not only was the question countered with "less dumb than 'has to contain racism'" and then the "but we are all adults" you pointed out was countered with the FACT that the books are marketed to pre-teens. The Core Books. The ones we are talking about. They aren't solely for adult men in their 40's and 50's. They are for kids. And to get those kids ready to play, there are ABC books and comic books aimed for younger groups. Plushies and card games. DnD isn't limited as a brand to only people who were alive in the 80's and 90's.

 

[AnotherGuy]

People have literally said that taking racism out takes every single conflict out of the game.

Hyperbolic replies are certainly helpful when the argument is failing.

 

[Chaosmancer]

I am not going to comment further on the points above, as I have said what I have to say and if it isn't persuasive to you it isn't persuasive to you (but I think most people reading this know the kinds of examples I had in mind and how those have played out).

No they don't. We have no idea. Those who think they know are just going to fill in the blank with whatever fits their pre-disposed narrative, so those who agree with you will think of the most unfair thing, and assume you mean that.

People aren't psychic, and clearly your examples aren't that well know.

For the cruelty, I just have to strongly disagree, as it isn't about a few hateful messages. It is about you personally being dragged through the mud on platforms like twitter, being called out by people for content they don't like or through some weird guilt by association attack, that ends up attracting tons of posters and posts that twist your reputation and even say outright lies about you (because these things are like a game of telephone). I have had this happen to me twice. So I know it's real. And I know plenty of posters have seen this sort of thing play out online in forums, on social media, etc and been troubled by it. If you don't see it fair enough. But I think the way we've used things like ostracizing and shaming definitely has become very cruel and extremely hostile. And while I am sure for many who participated it was just a passing dopamine rush, and I am sure there are plenty who probably in good faith thought they were right and I was wrong, but the consequences of that kind of treatment of a human being online means when they go to apply for jobs, that shows up. When they go to look for an apartment, that shows up. And it can ruin your ability to earn not just in the industry but outside of it. And it massively gets in your head. I don't like talking about this, but since you don't seem to think it is real I will say it again because I want people to understand the human cost of this behavior: I nearly killed myself over it. I knew how I was going to do it, and the only thing that stopped me was the realization that if I got it wrong I could end up paralyzed or seriously brain damaged. I ended up going into therapy and working through it. And by the time I encountered the second situation, I was better able to navigate that. But this stuff affected me. And the problem is it is impossible to defend yourself and untwist peoples words in those kinds of situations as they play out on social media. And most of it comes from people who don't know you, don't know the full story, don't even know the details first hand and are just basing their opinion of a second or third hand tweet

I know the death threats are real. Trans artists have been dealing with them. Jewish artists have been dealing with them. Muslim artists have been dealing with them. Women artists have been dealing with them.

Do people get dragged through the mud? Sure do. Gamergate was based entirely on the false rumor that a female reporter was sleeping around to get stories and not a "real" journalist. All if started by a former colleague she declined to date. Guy decided to ruin her life.

I'm very sorry you dealt with depression and suicide, I honestly am. But this sort of thing has happened for CENTURIES. This isn't new. This isn't uniquely cruel and unusual and solely targeted at people making edgy content. But when protestors took guns to the houses of School Board members and screamed at them and their families because of lies about them indoctrinating their children with made-up scare tactic words, I certainly didn't go around saying that all protests and demonstrations are threats to public safety. That if we don't stop protesting everything we will inevitably follow a slippery slope until it is okay to car bomb people. What I did is say that THOSE people were wrong. That THOSE people did something they shouldn't have done. I didn't generalize, I didn't offer vague statements of things people "clearly know" that were similar.

What you dealt with isn't some universal sign of the downfall of our society. It just isn't. And it certainly isn't a reason to stop, plug our ears, and pretend like we can't see anything wrong with any art, for fear that someone, somewhere, will take it too far. Because liars will lie. All we can do is not lie.

 

[Chaosmancer]

Hyperbolic replies are certainly helpful when the argument is failing.

Hyperbole? Really?

But let us ignore that and get back to my previous post's question which was not answered
What stardate do you wish to start in D&D?

1. No racism: The Age of Happy Hugs and Sunshines Kisses of the Spotless Mind
2. Some Racism: The Age of Conflicts and Struggle

I can tell you which most people are interested...but you won't believe me.

You literally said it. No racism, a world without conflict. Racism, a world of conflict. But please, continue to dismiss me having reading comprehension.

 

[RhaezDaevan]

I'm currently watching a TV show on Prime I missed while it was airing on cable. It was cancelled prematurely, so maybe it doesn't have many fans, but I'm enjoying it so far.

The show is called Grimm. For those unaware, there are supernatural creatures on the show called Wesen that most of the time just look like humans, but they have a hidden "monster" side to them they can bring out that usually gives them special abilities. There are many kinds depicted on the show, but most of them are depicted just as people. The main character is a cop, so more often than not deals with the bad ones, but they usually also show some good (or morally gray) ones of the same variety of Wesen. However, some of the episodes do specify that some of these creatures, by their very natures, are essentially all bad (or at least not good).

I'm only half way through the show, but so far they don't show any bigotry between humans. However, they do show hatred between some of the types of Wesen, due to past beef/history, but also because some of them eat the other ones. None of them are meant to be stand-ins for any real world ethnicity, but yes the show does utilize the "fantastic racism" trope.

I know that some in this thread said that bigotry can work in other mediums, but hypothetically if an RPG was created for those wanting to play in the world as depicted on Grimm. I would expect the game rules to mention that some Wesen have a natural dislike for other kinds, and that some of the varieties of them (like those that regularly eat people) would not be playable, and only be depicted in villain roles. Removing those elements would be a problem for me as then it's not really the same world anymore.

Now D&D is different in that it's not based on a TV show (or movie, book, comic, etc.) and you can make the world however you wish, but having dislike or hatred between groups of made up creatures doesn't have to be problematic, nor does creatures with an inherently villainous nature have to be problematic.

 

[Chaosmancer]

You absolutely don't, but you also don't need it gone from published product to have a good fantasy game, unless of course you're talking about personal preference.

Why does your personal preference need to be in the core books, being presented to pre-teens? Why can't you have your edgy racism game at home, where you can know the people involved and their comfort levels?

 

[AnotherGuy]

Why does your personal preference need to be in the core books, being presented to pre-teens? Why can't you have your edgy racism game at home, where you can know the people involved and their comfort levels?

Is it your contention that D&D of the 80s 90s 2000's 2010's and 2020's was too edgy for 12 and ups?

 

[AnotherGuy]

Hyperbole? Really?

You literally said it. No racism, a world without conflict. Racism, a world of conflict. But please, continue to dismiss me having reading comprehension.

I also said it is a tool numerous times.
And you are old enough to understand that you could still includes other areas of conflict in option 1 such as - greed, natural disasters, fighting over land and all that other generic conflict that you had raised earlier.

 

[Bedrockgames]

What you dealt with isn't some universal sign of the downfall of our society. It just isn't. And it certainly isn't a reason to stop, plug our ears, and pretend like we can't see anything wrong with any art, for fear that someone, somewhere, will take it too far. Because liars will lie. All we can do is not lie.

I am not going to talk about this matter with you any more. But I just want to say this isn’t what I said. I just offered my situation as an example of how the online culture in gaming has reached a point with getting personal about this that it almost led to my suicide. I never said that meant people shouldn’t complain or criticize. But so do think we need to think about how we are treating each other over this stuff.

I didn’t say anything about the other stuff you mentioned. Needless to say though, there are are plenty of other trends in society I find troubling (especially around guns)